trident direction?

discusmike

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Here is a field grown trident over 48" tall when dug, currently 16", been in a training pot for two yrs.I'm having issues with the crown, not sure if I should chop the crown off and start over.it needs a good pruning which it will get in spring, I kinda left it alone last summer to regain vigor, she did not put much top growth on but the roots look very fibrous n good now.If someone with more experience has input I'd appreciate it much, its been hot the last couple days so I'm checking my trees to see if they need water, thought I'd take some pics.
 

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discusmike

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Think I'm gonna chop it, not sure where yet, eventually approach grafts for the nebari, what do you think?
 

garywood

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Mike, there are a thousand directions you could go. The DETERMINATE is what you want for a tree. One of the first steps is to determine a vision and then using an appropriate technique to get there
 

drew33998

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Smoke will hopefully chime in. He has tons of tridents and may offer you some suggestions.
 

discusmike

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I originally had the idea of making it a more female slender taller trident, with a nice wide maple crown, the more I look at the tree, the more I think it needs to be shortened,I'm totally open to ideas.
 

Smoke

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So Drew, I've always been a curious sort, what would you do?

I was thinking the same thing...... Not paticularly of Drew but of the OP.

If I have said it once I have said it a thousand times...

I know what I am going to do to the tree the minutes it hits my workbench. If you don't know that from the gitgo, there should be no exchange of money. For the life of me I have no idea why trees are bought with no idea what to do with them.
 

discusmike

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My problem is that I have a tendacy to change my mind, maybe its from only 7yrs experience, maybe I don't have the artistic eye you have, I'm still learning, I hope :)
 

discusmike

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I'm thinking either below the first heavy branch on the new leader, or going drastic and chopping above the second branch on left, what do you guys suggest?
 

drew33998

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Gary, I would ask you what to do. I am not in any way an authority on the do's and don'ts of any species as I am still learning. But here is what I would do if it were mine. Please note that I could be completely wrong about any of this but I feel it is a worthy exercise.
1. I would use a concave cutter to reduce the appearance of the trunk chop at the apex.
2. I would cut back any branches that have long internodes back to the next pair of buds. When the new growth extends, pinch out the center shoots.
3. The nebari could use some grafts, though it is hard to see all that is going on due to the moss.
Hard to tell from the photos exactly what I would do. There are some areas that I am concerned with but cant really tell what is going on. Here is a photo of what I would do. The red line is where I would cut everything back to. Or even further back. There are also some branches that I would remove completely and others I would wire down a bit. There are others that I would also think about doing something with but I cant really tell from the photos.

trident.jpg
 

Smoke

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My problem is that I have a tendacy to change my mind, maybe its from only 7yrs experience, maybe I don't have the artistic eye you have, I'm still learning, I hope :)

Here is the way I see it. In life there is book learning and street learning. I work in the field of construction. My boss pays me well to do what it is I do for him.

Why?

Because he has a college degree in construction management and knows how to run a business. He is very sucessful at it. Best construction company I have ever worked for. I will retire there.
My point is we each know what we do best. I would trade 3 college boys for one guy thats been in the trade for 5 years and knows which end of the saw to put on the board. Those kind of guys are street smart not book smart.

What does this have to do with bonsai? Throw the books away. I havn't looked at a bonsai book in twenty years. I did buy Robert Steven's Mission of Transformation just so I could use it as a dart board and see if I could hit the part where it says "Edited by Will Heath", but I digress.

Bonsai is about doing bonsai. Working every stinking day. Live where its winter, then mix some soil, clean and oil the tools, clean the old condom packages out of the bottom of your bonsai bag...or is that just me?

If you think the tree is too tall, then cut it. Don't wait for some dude here that can't actually see it make some rogue recommendation. Just cut the damn thing, not now though. You probably would have read that part in the book.

After you cut it next spring, watch what it does. Take some pictures along the way. Don't post them here, no one wants to see your cut back log. Wait for a couple years untill you have grown out those new upright branches making that more spreading canopy you envision. Then you will have something to show. People will be amazed at your bravery and doing it on your own.
You ain't gonna ever know what you can do untill you just makes some cuts and start working trees. Uh ohh this one dies. well the no. one thing you learn is not to experiment on larger more expensive trees. Second, it gives you a cadaver to examine and see what the hell you did wrong.

Please don't take my message above before your reply personal, it is not meant that way. It is meant to give you a boost and do this for yourself.

Here are some tridents just sitting under a tree in the backyard in a lost corner. They probably have grown out thru the hole and are in the ground. I don't care, I just take a flat shovel and cut them free. These were cuttings two years ago. Now they are 16 inches tall about 3/4 across in the trunk and have been hedges all year to keep them compact. I have no idea what I will do with them. I am thinking about cutting off all the branches and threading five of them thru a tile. The flat is of course last years seeds, which this year should fatten up well in baskets.

I have no idea what I will do, but I sure am not going to wait for this bunch to give me suggestions or tell me what I should cut. Just work them. You want seeds I will send you some seeds. Probably too late now but keep them in the fridge and you can plant them next year. Pm me your addy and I will send you a hundred.

Good luck, now cut that thing....but wait till spring (grin)....
 

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drew33998

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Condoms in the bonsai bag? Man bonsai must be much more popular on the west coast than it is here.
 

Smoke

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Drew, while I was typing my windbag post, you posted yours. I had no idea you were posting and the "Dude" is not you. He is a caricature of the forum in general.

but....since you did post, you see how appropriate my text was about telling people what to do when you can't see it.

Everyone here has to do their due diligence to make an acceptable bonsai to the best of their ability. If it fails so be it...if it shines the forum will let you know.
 

Smoke

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Condoms in the bonsai bag? Man bonsai must be much more popular on the west coast than it is here.

Oh hell ya, in California we grow sprouts for moss and put avocado on everything. You don't have bonsai groupies on the east coast? Hell blondes is the main reason I do this.
 

drew33998

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Drew, while I was typing my windbag post, you posted yours. I had no idea you were posting and the "Dude" is not you. He is a caricature of the forum in general.

but....since you did post, you see how appropriate my text was about telling people what to do when you can't see it.

Everyone here has to do their due diligence to make an acceptable bonsai to the best of their ability. If it fails so be it...if it shines the forum will let you know.

That is the truth. And I am the guy with the construction management degree. Though I worked in the field and put myself through college. I can sympathize with that totally. Some people are so scared of making mistakes that they never try to do anything. Sometimes its best to try something and if it is wrong, then say hey I made a judgment call at the time and it was wrong. You can't wait for someone to tell you how to do everything or nothing would get done. Here's to screwing up a couple hundred trees to hone my skills!
 

discusmike

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Thanks for the incentive, and don't forget to reload on condoms:)
 

Smoke

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Here's to screwing up a couple hundred trees to hone my skills!

Now thats the way it needs to be looked at. No one ever hits a jackpot in Vegas playing with scared money.
 
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