Two questions

[JudyB]

I have two questions.

First, if you have a one flush tree, when is the best time to do major carving on it? Speaking about a Montpelier maple specifically.

Second, I have repositioned m crabapple and have exposed some nice surface roots that could stand to be a bit thicker. These roots now exposed, have started to put out suckers, which I would normally rub off. If I leave these to grow, will this thicken the roots? The tree is strong, so I can't imagine letting them grow within reason weakening the tree.

Thanks for any thoughts,
JB

 

[Neli]

Suckers off the trunk at soil level, can be bent to create roots from. Pinned down to soil level to root and later chopped off.
Just an idea.

 

[JudyB]

But I do not think they ever become actual roots. This tree suckers enough as is, I would basically be creating a raft of more suckers if I did that.

Sooo, the question remains about the roots that are there and suckering. I believe I'll let it go and see what happens a bit.
Thanks for responding!

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I think you'll be ok letting the suckers fatten the roots from which they emerge. It happens in nature all the time with crabs and cherries and has that effect. If you think they're getting too strong, shorten them. I think I'd try to keep them shorter than 1/2 the height of the tree.

 

[Dav4]

As far as your question concerning carving on your maple, I've always been told to carve living tissue during the growing season. Your maple may be a one flush maple but it is metabolically active and experiencing cambial growth throughout the growing season. I would think after the leaves have hardened off would be a good time to carve as the tree would have the rest of the season to wall off and grow around the damage done to the cambium.

 

[Ryan820]

I've always read that leaving any suckers in is a drain on the health of the main plant and it makes sense... Even if you were to leave them on, yes, resources would go to these things and my guess, fatten up the surrounding tissue... I guess the question is, do the presence of suckers signal to the main tree that it's time is up?

 

[JudyB]

Actually I think that suckers mean that the tree is vigorous, not the other way round.
I will leave them as my tree is very strong, but I'll keep them pretty short. Thanks Brian.

Good point Dave, will give me time to check out some tool options...

 

[Poink88]

I leave suckers to help add "character" on my tree trunks/base (I prefer them gnarly). As Brian mentioned keeping them in check if you have concerns would help. It really depends on how the growth is compared to the top. Pinching it a bit more often will weaken it just enough.

 

[bonsaibp]

You can carve safely anytime after the leaves harden off. I do most of my carving in the summer.
As long as you don't let them get too big the suckers are a great way to fatten up the roots. I use that technique to fatten the bases of my olives especially. Just don't let them get too big or grow into the foliage area of the tree.

 

[RKatzin]

Devil or angel?

Thank you so much for starting this conversation! I think the term sucker is a bad name for an advantageous shoot and automaticly implies a negative connotation as an evil weed to what can be a very useful tool. I consider them gift from the tree if you're looking to increase your stock.

I'm very glad to see you join the conversation Bob, you've pulled my bacon out of the fire on a number of occasions. I have great repect for your wisdom and much appreciation for your helpfulness. You've been a guiding light in my dark journey of self-teaching. I have to spit things out to hear what I'm thinking sometimes and I have some ideas and practices on this subject.

I think it depends on what type of tree, what you want to do and where you are at with the tree or where the tree is at in it's stage of development.

Pyrocantha is one that comes to mind that suckers so profusely as to be disasterous to itself and surrounds if not cut, what, two three time a season. Made the mistake of planting aspen in the garden! I won't do that again unless it's in a deep walled container or I've thought of one of those kids swimming pools buried in the ground. Talk about suckering!

I have been using these tools in my own experiments. I think there is a symbiotic relation between the tree and its offspring. They do not rob each other, they feed each other. I think the Quacking Aspen defines this better than any tree.

Learning tool- I have an English Elm I've grown from a seedling and beginning to shapeup. I've been reading about the hedge trimming method and wanted to try it out, but not on my baby. I've let a few root suckers come up about a foot from the tree and have been practicing the hedge trimming on them. Actually developing nicely into a small tree. As I grew these shoots out I noticed that the vigor on the main tree was also increasing, doubleing the number of advantageous shoots and extentions. This elm has been my whipping boy and I've knocked it back pretty good a few times, it's a real trooper.

I have over the years allowed shoots to grow to several feet before removing them and it really pumps up a tree fast both in root mass and trunk size. The elm is/was a bit of a spindle and I've thought of airlayering below the lowest branch, but rather I'm letting shoots grow around the lower trunk areas to see if I can put some bulges into it. I can always airlayer, but in time I think it will work out.

I have a large English Hawthorn I am going to airlayer. I have ground and I like trees that I'm growing out for future work to have full advantage so in the ground they go. Especially if they are weak and ailing, nothing brings a tree around like a couple of seasons with mama.

Talk about another profuse producer! Four years running I've gathered about ten good starts from this tree. The first are now pushing an inch and a half and making shoots of their own. Note that I've kept the suckers off of this tree. It has a nice root base and I want to take three airlayers from the top so I've been pushing all the energy up there. I let the root suckers get about four to six feet and take them like a heel cutting and shove them right back into the ground. I get ten bucks a pop for them the second year! Better than a poke in the eye, which this tree is notiorious for.

That's my thoughts, I'd love to hear yours, Rick

 

[JudyB]

Would love to see your hawthorn Rkatz. Thanks for the thoughts everyone, and BP, thanks for the carving timing advice.

Nice post Rick, examples are always wonderful, as they explain the process instead of just telling it. Thank you for such a thoughtful post.

 

[RKatzin]

I haven't forgotten, but I didn't have any pics at the time.

Here is a couple of trees:
The first is a Chinese Elm. This was a large nursery tree with little taper. I've been removing all new buds from the top portion and allowing the ones near the bottom to grow out before removing them. Slowly building some taper.

Second is a wild plum that grows around here. It produces small yellow plums about the size of a dime. This tree suckers profusely, but they do not come from a place were they do any good as far as building the base. They seem to eminate from under the base of the tree and not from the sides. I was removing all as soon as they appeared, but for the past two years I've been letting them grow on a bit and the tree has greatly increased in vigor since.

I don't have a pic of the English Elm with the satilite tree, I need to mow so I can get one.

 

[JudyB]

Thanks for posting these, nice examples.