Okay, here's the warning...
Do we really have to tell people in this day and age to check references, buy from a reputable business, ask others in the community about the business, if it sounds too good to be true it probably is, pay with a credit card (most protection against scams), use common sense, and so on???
On the issue with Chefdave (aka all the other names he has gone by ) it was listed on e-bay!
And he has been banned from there as well over this one and several others who he has stiffed as well as shilling.
Chefdave had Concorde send the payment with a money order. As a buyer from e-bay this is not uncommon. Chefdave had claimed that all his bonsai had just been stole. (proven to be a lie as well)..
What I am talking about is from buying from anyone that does this kind of thing.
Why not have a place where we can check it out?
Irene, I think you would open a legal can of worms if someone was "LISTED" and it turned out that he was on the up and up. I have had a couple of people spread malicious rumors about Shady Side. These rumors were unfounded and definitely untrue as posted on some other forums. These rumors took me a year of Sundays to chase down a prove unfounded. It definitely hurt business for a while.
I think if anyone wants to buy from a person ask for references from the seller to people that have bought from him....also check with members of the forum.
You have to be careful that you can LEGALLY make the distinction between a wrong doer and one with which you, or someone else, may have a personal bone to pick. This is a dangerous thing to do and in its own way may do as much or more WRONG than what someone may be accused of. We do have the principle in this country of being assumed innocent until proven guilty. To someone upon which this kind of vigilante justice may fall, as has been pointed out already, they are left with the unenviable, albeit impossible task, of proving a negative. Even when sheltered by a screen name a determined lawyer can find where and by who this kind of information originated and there is the possibility of legal actions.
What are we talking about here?
irene_b, I think the fact that only 1 or 2% of the people interested in bonsai are active bonsai forum readers, have probably seen the thread at bTALK, or know somebody who have dealings with him, His typing/writing style was discovered here very quickly, it's about all that can be done to alert the community.
Outside of the electronic world, it would be near impossible to scam somebody, because it would be a "cash in hand" and "tree in sight" kinda thing.
It just goes to prove, that when a single person has wronged one or more people in the community, the whole community needs to be informed. Bravo to bTALK for allowing the thread to continue and allowing all the dirty laundry to air. If the thread would have been deleted or censored, people here may have fallen prey to the exact same scam.
Information about scammers, wrong-doer's, thieves and "perpetrators of other maleficences", should be well known and public.
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
defamation is the communication of a statement that makes a false claim
Mr Vance Wood, I very very carefully choose words and phases. If you read my post no where does it state anything about SHANNON or refer to him directly or indirectly.
If somebody was banned from several websites (eBay and bonsaiTALK for example) for "improper conduct" , and somebody says, "Well, he was banned for improper conduct regarding the sell of a tree" That's not defamation...
...thats what we call "the truth"
(Disclaimer--This post was not referring to a single individual, it is entirely hypothetical with no intention to harm, insult, libel, or defame)
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