What is the difference... Eastern White & Scots Pine

[tanda4]

I purchased what I thought/told to be a Scots Pine for a workshop. At the workshop I was told it was a Eastern White Pine. I guess my question is what is the differences between a Scots Pine and a Eastern White Pine?

All I hear is bad things regarding using a Eastern White Pine for bonsai.

 

[sdavis]

I purchased what I thought/told to be a Scots Pine for a workshop. At the workshop I was told it was a Eastern White Pine. I guess my question is what is the differences between a Scots Pine and a Eastern White Pine?

A scots pine has 2 needles per bundle. Eastern white has 5 needles per bundle.

 

[tanda4]

Thank you for the quick response. Being that it has 5 needles, it must be a Eastern White.

 

[Cypress187]

Welcome to the foum. If you lived in the Netherlands, I know a big field where all pines need to go, it's full of Scots Pines. Btw, if you fill in your location the experts can give you much beter advice.

 

[MichaelS]

IMO, EWP has problems with needle length, ramification, length of internodes, bark and bleeding. Some things are just not suited to bonsai and this is one of them.
SP does not have any on those problems. It makes a better looking tree in every way.

 

[sorce]

You "easterners"....
Should embrace your material.
Eastern WP, Eastern RC (j.crack), it must be "trending".

Or keep paying shitloads of $ to ship Cali trees, and complaining about it!

http://www.bonsainut.com/threads/bonsai-show-in-southeast-michigan.24247/

Just Saying.

Sorce

 

[aml1014]

You "easterners"....
Should embrace your material.
Eastern WP, Eastern RC (j.crack), it must be "trending".

Or keep paying shitloads of $ to ship Cali trees, and complaining about it!

http://www.bonsainut.com/threads/bonsai-show-in-southeast-michigan.24247/

Just Saying.

Sorce

I agree with you very much on this. People need to quit being in such "fads" about the type of tree they want, when the things that do best where we all are, IS HOME! Ive already changed my favorite pine from jbp to the good Ole ponderosa, they've been around me my whole life and will continue to be, so why should I try to grow a JBP when I want to think of the forest I grew up in?

Aaron

 

[Dav4]

While I agree with the sentiment of using natives suited to your local climate because they will generally grow better then trees from elsewhere, you can't call it a fad to use species of trees that have many traits suitable to bonsai culture. I love Ponderosa pine and had several wonderful trees when I lived in MA. They were all BIG, at least 30" tall and my tallest was closer to 4 ft and needed size to mesh with the large needles. I love EWP as a landscape tree, but have yet to find a good candidate to use in bonsai, because it doesn't have characteristics I'm wanting in my bonsai subjects, mainly good bark and compact growth. Recently, I've seen a few EWP bonsai that have looked pretty good....but.... they will never look as good as some of the JBP, JWP, JRP, and Scotts P bonsai that I've seen, and own...and I want to own trees with LOTS of potential. I've got 5 yr old JBP seedlings that are beginning to bark up...I'll be in a nursing home before I see a similarly aged EWP do the same. You're lucky that you have access to Pondies, and I am looking at trying my hand at a loblolly and P. virginiana, but if I want a good pine bonsai and I'm looking for a more or less sure thing, I'll stick with the JBP and JRP, at least in my back yard.

 

[M. Frary]

Should embrace your material.
Eastern WP, Eastern RC (j.crack), it must be "trending".

As you carry them to the burn pile.
That EWP in the picture I posted was around 4 feet tall. It has been in bonsai culture for 20 years. The needles are still ultra long. From what I'm seeing they never reduce.
Why mess around with sub par species when there are others way more suited to what we do? Because they're there? And don't say for practice either. What kind of knowledge does a person gain from that?
You don't practice badminton to play football. So why practice bonsai on a tree that gives you hardly any knowledge to work trees that are good for bonsai.
To the O.P. Eastern WHite pine are far outclassed by scots pine in bonsai culture. Go with scots and never look at Eastern White pine again. EWP will be a waste of time and energy.

 

[mattspinniken]

On the bright side Scots Pine grows naturally in parts of Illinois.

 

[sorce]

Just go huge!

Sorce

 

[Adair M]

Dav4 and M. Frary both speak wisdom. And if I might add, location makes a big difference.

As an example:

Where I live, Ponderosa needles are very difficult to reduce simply because they are a single flush pine, and we have a very long growing season. I know that as ramification increases, it's energy will get split amongst more twigs, and needles should shorten.

But, when I bought it, it still had needles from its native Colorado. They were 2 to 2.5 inches long. Here, they grow 5 to 6 inches long! The Colorado mountain summer is much shorter than ours.

So...

I have a tree about 16 yo 18 inches tall with 5 inch needles. I don't even fertilize it!

This tree has a great trunk, wonderful dead wood, and if I could maintain 2.5 inch needles, it would be fantastic. But it won't.

I keep it to remind myself NOT to be tempted to bu another! Lol!!! In fact I did win another at a club auction that had great potential, but knowing how it would grow out of scale at my house, I sold it to someone in a better environment for it.

Conversely,

I have a Zuisho JWP at Boon's in California. It's a wonderful tree, but not growing well in his environment. So, I'm bringing it home to Georgia where I suspect it will do better. I have another Zuisho here, and it's thriving!

Trees evolve to thrive in their environment. Take the tree out of that environment, and the tree struggles. If a tree is taken out of its natural habitat and moved to a similiar habitat, it will most likely thrive there.

My climate here in North Georgia is very similiar to that of Japan's. That why many Japanese species do well here. On the other hand, many American species, such as California Juniper, don't like my climate. Over a couple years, a California Juniper would fade and die. Whereas Shimpaku thrives.

So, I prefer to grow Shimpaku rather than Californua Juniper. Is it because I think "Japanese" species are better than "American" species? Not at all. It's just that they grow in my climate better than the American counterparts.

 

[tanda4]

I guess the price of the tree and class was a partial waste of $120.

 

[Dav4]

I guess the price of the tree and class was a partial waste of $120.

Do you have a picture of it?

 

[jcrossett]

I guess the price of the tree and class was a partial waste of $120.

Never a waste just a learning experience.

 

[LanceMac10]

Do you have a picture of it?

This.....

 

[petegreg]

Are Swiss pines sold in The States?

 

[jeanluc83]

On the bright side Scots Pine grows naturally in parts of Illinois.

It has become naturalized. It was planted widely as Christmas trees and as landscape trees where it escaped cultivation.

 

[sorce]

badminton

I heard a story about an Olympic feller training for Badminton the other day.

BTW....

Did I forget to add a , to that post?

It ain't that serious.

But you easterners....
Work it. Work it.

"American Bonsai".....

This ain't no Island.

Eventually we should come to terms with that, and that what we use will represent each of our little corners.
Unless you want to just flush that whole thing down the drain and have a bunch of cookie cutter ass shit we spent way too much money on.

I would much rather see some huge EWP, that actually have some good character...
Than a bunch of sub par ass cuz Japan don't export good stuff ass shit all over.

All I'm sayin....

They are still working on JBP.
New concepts...
Been hundreds of years.

If we give up at generation one.
We just suck dry nanny nipple and always will.

I'm not with that.

Work harder.
Figure it out.
Go huge.
Get the sand out of our collective American Vagina.

Think.

Be.

Do.

Sorce

 

[aml1014]

I heard a story about an Olympic feller training for Badminton the other day.

BTW....

Did I forget to add a , to that post?

It ain't that serious.

But you easterners....
Work it. Work it.

"American Bonsai".....

This ain't no Island.

Eventually we should come to terms with that, and that what we use will represent each of our little corners.
Unless you want to just flush that whole thing down the drain and have a bunch of cookie cutter ass shit we spent way too much money on.

I would much rather see some huge EWP, that actually have some good character...
Than a bunch of sub par ass cuz Japan don't export good stuff ass shit all over.

All I'm sayin....

They are still working on JBP.
New concepts...
Been hundreds of years.

If we give up at generation one.
We just suck dry nanny nipple and always will.

I'm not with that.

Work harder.
Figure it out.
Go huge.
Get the sand out of our collective American Vagina.

Think.

Be.

Do.

Sorce

You can write the words I'm thinking better then I can, and thus is on many occasions! Weird, but you said what I was trying to get across. @Adair M I still like jbp, but I prefer ponderosa as they ARE native around me so they work well. I've seen some in my club that have 2" needles, the trick here is FULL sun and LITTLE water, just like in the mountains around us. Another example is the Acer Negundo, bad rap, but Ive personally worked on several very nice specimens, unfortunately Acer P. don't do well here. Work with what works well in your climate right?

Aaron