what's wrong with small trees?

[Cadillactaste]

I don't mind doing many ways to start.
My trees are indoors because that's where they were before I knew better and they are not dormant. Winter here.

I'm sorry...I must admit I haven't read through this entire tread. Your now aware of the need for dormancy I'm assuming by your comment. Ones have found when a tree lacks dormancy that typically goes dormant. It weakens the trees. But your comment to me...makes it sound as if your going to go about wintering those a bit differently. So hopefully not an issue at all. Enjoy the journey...

 

[rockm]

OK, so I'm reading through Sprite's #1 post of this thread and it just jumps out at me. "A very large bonsai." Now that's an oxymoron if I've ever seen one. Let's see, Wikipedia says "the word bonsai is often used in English as an umbrella term for all miniature trees in containers or pots". So if I was to interpolate a little bit here, it would be "a very large miniature tree". Now that just don't make no sense. (And as an aside, Sprite, you may just want to use google or Wikipedia or the dictionary to see what you are being called, and use the same when you may have occasion to really understand the meaning of something.)

Um, well, it does make a lot of sense. There is a huge difference between a 5 lb, foot tall mallsai and a five foot tall, 500 pound imported "forklift" Chinese elm like the one at the right in this photo

 

[jkl2]

I started young. This fact seems to have confused me a bit.

??? That's how we all start, isn't it?

 

[jkl2]

I have books. They are all the same and not much help.

You must have the wrong ones.

 

[jkl2]

Let's say (which you have my Blessings for!) you get another 30 years working with this thing.......(even if you don't have it anymore, as it sounds)

What improvements would you make?

Not Many. As I said, I liked it "as was." Maybe see if the base could have improved??

 

[jkl2]

My next question is what is the best way to grow out an elm?
Bend and grow?
Sacrifice limb?
Cut grow cut grow?

YES!

 

[jkl2]

I am convinced that there is not a best way but many best ways.

The inverse is just as true.

 

[Woodland Spirit]

Chops on larger trunks force taper into the tree. Typically with a trunk chop, the grower chooses one of the new buds that pop up near the chop site (this is typical tree response to wounding--hormones that used to travel up the chopped portion have nowhere to go once that larger portion is gone. Those hormones trigger new buds to replace the missing portion. This is a key ingredient in bonsai--hard pruning induces tighter, closer branching through new bud production).

Matching up the original trunk to the new apex branching takes some time. The bigger the original trunk, the longer the replacement branching takes to fill in--the fastest way to do it requires the tree be planted back in the ground or in a largish training container (ANY container will slow growth to some extent, as top growth depends on the amount of roots supplying it).
The top third of this oak was regrown from a sprout after the bigger trunk was severed. It took about 20 years to get to where it is now. I started it with a pinkie finger sized shoot that sprouted at the top and went from there. It took so long because all of that time, the tree has been in a container. I could have halved that time if I'd planted it back in a grow bed (which I don't have room for in my backyard).
View attachment 91055

Excellent information. I am amazed at how much I have learned since beginning this thread. Still I haven't remembered the half of it I think but I go back over it and do a lot of research on my own as well.
Before starting this I didn't know what to look for or even that I should be looking.
Anyway, Thanks

 

[Woodland Spirit]

The inverse is just as true.

I don't understand what you are trying to say. Maybe rephrase it?

 

[jkl2]

Hmmm. Seems clear to me. Just substitute "worst" for "best." Then think about it.

 

[Woodland Spirit]

Yes many start young.
I definitely have the wrong books but that is soon to be remedied thanks to helpful suggestions here.

Hmmm. Seems clear to me. Just substitute "worst" for "best." Then think about it.

Now I understand. Yes, that is true.

 

[Ironbeaver]

I definitely have the wrong books

Which ones do you have?

 

[Dalmat]

Excellent information. I am amazed at how much I have learned since beginning this thread. Still I haven't remembered the half of it I think but I go back over it and do a lot of research on my own as well.
Before starting this I didn't know what to look for or even that I should be looking.
Anyway, Thanks

You may find some answers to your questions here. Those are kind of bonsai ABC... At least it will help you to understand what are others talking about.
http://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/ATdevelopingtrunksforbonsai.htm

 

[Anthony]

Most of the Bonsai books - Brooklyn Botanical series, the Koreshoff, The Classic Bonsai of Japan, Hu Yunhua, Wu Yee Sun, and so on are
available second hand on Amazon.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[dick benbow]

I think there is a progression in every hobby.
For example in fishing...you start out just enjpying it. Next your determined to catch more than anyone else. then just the biggest. then finally your back to just happy to have the time to get out.

As I look back on my involvement, at first if it was japanese...well it wasn't. Then I got started on local trees. Then interested in tokonoma display, where yamadori dug looked nice along with my smaller companion trees/plant. I still have the first tree I ever started with. and it continues to improve and become more refined with the years.

So enjoy your time with your smaller trees. As the administrator suggests maybe shohin will be your next step. Or maybe like me you'll get lured away into something different. This hobby has so many options to explore, it can keep you from becoming static. But the main thing is that you should be enjoying the hobby and continually learning.

like my fishing example where your just happy to get out, I find my love of nice sized display trees for tokonoma use is being affected by my advancing years where I can no longer haul around two man trees by myself. And i find myself effectively downsizing to smaller trees again

I quess you could say in modern expression "I've come full circle".

 

[sorce]

For example in fishing...you start out just enjpying it. Next your determined to catch more than anyone else. then just the biggest. then finally your back to just happy to have the time to get out.

I'll be damned if that ain't exactly the way of it!

Nice!

Sorce

 

[M. Frary]

I'll be damned if that ain't exactly the way of it!

Nice!

Sorce

Or buy a boat,join BASS and go tournament fishing.
Competition. Better bring the A game everytime.

 

[Woodland Spirit]

I go fishing to get drunk, but I see your point

 

[Cypress187]

So if I want a tiny little juniper, maybe 4 inches tall, why not?
If my pinion, when it reaches a form of maturity is about a foot long, is that a problem? Maybe I have a sapling that will one day grow to have a massive trunk and be a very large bonsai like so many tink I should have exclusively. Does it have to be full size now? Can't it take some time? Years?
I ask this because I am getting flack about the size of my YOUNG bonsai.
I really don't see anything wrong with a tiny tree and all trees start small. If it stays the size it is now or grows 5 feet tall, what of it?
It is frustrating beyond what you may realize for a beginner to be expected to have a fully grown 300 year old bonsai that he dug up from a hill last summer.

Well, most of the time they first develop the nebari, and a skinny sapling is far from having a developed thunk (which generates comment's like (telephone)-pole and skinny twig).

 

[Paradox]

A lot of people here think this, and it makes sense, but it's just as fine to buy a nice tree from the beginning. My first tree was a $300 kingsville boxwood. Let me just say, you learn really fast how to keep a tree alive when you have a bit of an investment in a good first tree.

Rather than liberally expriement with a bunch of cheap trees, you learn how to conservatively care for nice trees. I'm not saying this is the only way to learn, but I am saying it's just as good.

Also, we really don't keep bonsai indoors, unless it's a tropical in the winter time...

Cheers!

Your first tree was $300, do you want a cookie or an attaboy?

The one thing I have learned is that there is no "learn really fast" in bonsai.

Buying an expensive tree before you even have a clue about keeping it alive or even if you can keep it alive is the fastest way to kill it and the desire to remain in the hobby. So I will encourage people to learn on cheaper trees and gain confidence before making a big investment and most likely driving them away from the hobby when it dies.

I am newer but not so new to not know that we keep trees outside except for tropicals during winter. I have 50+ trees including several ficus and BRT in my basement right now.

That's not what I meant about "placement", but I guess you didn't know that.....