When and why would you sell a tree?

[berobinson82]

Every time I'm watching a tree on ebay, I wonder why the tree is being sold. Maybe a branch died off that was crucial to the design. Maybe the owner has raised their standards. Would WP or RN or you sell your top ten? Is it the adage "everyone has a price" that prevails in this circumstance? What I'm really trying to say is:

If someone is willing to sell you a tree, under typical circumstances (barring needing cash), isn't that tree less than ideal material?

Caveat: This question isn't including those professionals that grow for a living.

 

[Smoke]

What I'm really trying to say is:

If someone is willing to sell you a tree, under typical circumstances (barring needing cash), isn't that tree less than ideal material?

Absolutely not. Many people buy a great piece of material and have no idea how to care for it, lose interest, or have no advanced idea of techniques. These trees can be aquired many times very modestly. This is a great way for someone such as myself that does not have a budget to spend 1000.00 for a tree, but I can buy a 400.00 tree that someone screwed up and save it.

Would I sell any of my top ten? Money is not really the motivator here. The motivator is that once it is sold, the money it brings would probably not be enought to get better than what I had.

Take this maple. I bought it in 2001 as a stump for $140.00. It has taken me 12 years to get it to the point it is now. I might be able to sell it for $3000.00 now, but could never replace it. My value would be gone because to replace it would mean that I would have to buy something now at todays market price and it will never appreciate as this tree has.

There is just to much time in between "buy low and sell high".

I go over all of this in my fourth book, "Twin Trunk...or Big.. Wye?"

 

[Anthony]

Hmm,

not sure quite what your asking. A sale brings in money, and it may allow you to purchase something else. So you can quickly change your collection.

Bonsai is one of those luxuries, like show dogs and once paid for has to be cared for, and may not be easily sold, and sold at the price you want or need.
Unlike gold.

I helped purchase stock in 94, but never saw the need to purchase ever again.

Always remember that you have to be convinced to purchase an item that costs and has to be cared for, or as it is done in China, you have the money and you have the gardener, and you don't care about the cost, you must just own to show off.
Good Day.
Anthony

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

When I look at my trees, sometimes I'll do an inventory of sorts:

"if I need to cull the herd and sell off the bottom 3, which would go?"

Each time I do that, the bottom 3 get harder to part with because they're not bad trees, but for whatever reason, I'm bored with it, tired of the species, or it's as developed as I care to make it, I'm ready to move on. That doesn't make them bad, just maybe better for someone else now.

Honestly, it's a good way to improve your collection. Compared to other points in time throughout the hobby, I have relatively few trees right now...but I can still tell you which three I'd let go, and I suspect it wouldn't be hard to sell them.

 

[Eric Group]

When I look at my trees, sometimes I'll do an inventory of sorts:

"if I need to cull the herd and sell off the bottom 3, which would go?"

Each time I do that, the bottom 3 get harder to part with because they're not bad trees, but for whatever reason, I'm bored with it, tired of the species, or it's as developed as I care to make it, I'm ready to move on. That doesn't make them bad, just maybe better for someone else now.

Honestly, it's a good way to improve your collection. Compared to other points in time throughout the hobby, I have relatively few trees right now...but I can still tell you which three I'd let go, and I suspect it wouldn't be hard to sell them.

Ok, well just shoot me a PM when you are ready! I suspect your bottom three would be masterpieces to me!! lol.

At this point, I personally wouldn't sell any of my trees except as "potensai".. They just aren't to that point yet. I don't have the coin to by big, beautiful developed bonsai. I didn't ten years ago when I started this little hobby, and I don't now... My goal has always been to get nursery stock or collected trees and develop them into bonsai myself... I am getting close to having something worth showing off with a couple I think, but most my trees are still developing in my mind... Not something I would offer up as a bonsai for sale today.

 

[fourteener]

In my early enthusiasm I gathered up a lot of trees. They didn't even have to be that nice. I just surrounded myself with material. Last summer was the height of my collection. I had 120+ trees and I wasn't enjoying it very much. I sold off, gave away, replanted about 40 trees. Some of them had problems not worthy of the effort to overcome, some were boring, some species are no longer interesting to me, the nice ones were sold and I bought 4-5 better trees.

I'm at about 90 trees right now and feel like 75 is a better mark. Like Brian I have more like 10 trees I should say good bye to. I already know where three great gathers are next spring. which means I need to identify the three for the auction also next spring.

I think one of the reasons I see members in our club getting rid of trees is that maturing trees take more work than immature trees. If your going to do the hobby well, your real question is how many trees do you want to wire every year. My RMJ took me a day to cut off the wire and a day to re-wire the whole thing. Every other summer that's the requirement. I see collections suffering from lack of attention. Quality trees require a certain amount of attention.

Like Brian said, your collection looks a lot better when you get rid of the bottom three or in my case thirty.

Back to the original question...yes people get rid of things that have problems. Yes people get rid of things for which they have no vision. Some of my good finds on ebay where things that were overgrown or in some way people couldn't imagine the great thing it could be. People don't pay for "What could be" they only pay for what is. Beware the problems, search for visionless material.

 

[John Ruger]

I've never sold a tree, but I've swapped a few; usually a 1 for 1 or 2 for 1 kind of deal depending on the material. Some I gave away.

My collections have always been small. I try to keep the total number under 20 since I can really pay attention to each of them especially with the schedules I have to work, plus the costs involved-more trees need more time and more soil components, fertilizer, etc., etc....

And then there's the $$ costs. If I gave too much into the temptation I'd be living under a bridge with the trees trying to figure out the best side for sun.

 

[Anthony]

Hmm,

every year, 2 or 3 new tree types come in, and usually around 3 to 5 each. It takes that many to test for basic stuff, ability to branch, branchlet or leaf dense, root distribution if any on the surface [ many of our trees have no such feature ], bark, flowers, special features etc.

Takes around 3 to 5 years to figure out. Keep one or two, send the rest to homes or return to the wild [ somewhere safe.]
We have an open field. Exciting!!

Never been sure about that idea that some trees will not work. Normally anything placed to ground grow can be re-started.

I have always wondered about folk up north, say Canada or really high altitudes, how long does it take a sapling to reach 1 to 3 to 5 inches as trunks go.
Amount of space needed for a tree to grow at it's own rate.
Anyhow I digress.

Perhaps someone gives up on tree, because of space limitations, as was mentioned before.

Like I said previously, not sure just what is the question.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[fourteener]

I believe the question is how leery should you be about buying trees on eBay. Are people just getting rid of problem trees, so you are just buying their problems, like a used car.

The problem with new people as they get into bonsai us that there is a bit of a lie. We show them impressive, well trained trees. They never see the mess we started with. All trees have strengths and problems. You have to decide if the problem is worth your time to address.

As has been the discussion here and other bonsai places, can you help any tree overcome its problem to become a good tree. The discussion about that with Suthin this summer went something like this...any tree can overcome, if it takes more than 7 years he's not gonna bother with it.

A tree on eBay probably has an issue(like every other tree). The question is, how long to fix it, how much time do I want to take?

 

[MACH5]

I am trying to make it a small business for myself. Monetize my hobby if you will. I buy the rough stock, style it and then sell it. As Fourteener said, most people like to pay for what it is and not for what it can be. Some of what I earn from those sales go right back into the hobby. More specifically it helps support my obsession with Japanese maples.

As Brian mentioned, selling your trees is also a good way to simplify your collection and in turn make it better and more focused. Years ago, after keeping many different kinds of trees, I made a commitment to mainly keep two species that I am most interested in: RMJs and Japanese maples. I do have a sampling of other species, but they constitute a very small percentage of what I have today.

 

[Poink88]

I love all my trees but I do have my favorites. Barring extreme need or circumstance, I won't sell my top 10 rather my mid-range only because I am running out of room. I cannot sell my lowest end (my conscience won't let me)...cannot even donate them until they are better. I could give them away though.

 

[coh]

I believe the question is how leery should you be about buying trees on eBay. Are people just getting rid of problem trees, so you are just buying their problems, like a used car.

The problem with new people as they get into bonsai us that there is a bit of a lie. We show them impressive, well trained trees. They never see the mess we started with. All trees of strengths and problems. You have to decide if the problem is worth your time to address.

As has been the discussion here and other bonsai places, can you help any tree overcome its problem to become a good tree. The discussion about that with Suthin this summer went something like this...any tree can overcome, if it takes more than 7 years he's not gonna bother with it.

A tree on eBay probably has an issue(like every other tree). The question is, how long to fix it, how much time do I want to take?

Not sure if leery is the right term, but I'm definitely cautious when buying trees on line. I don't think most sellers (especially those trying to do it as a business) are trying to sell trees with big hidden problems. However, as we discussed in the other thread...photos can be deceiving (or misleading), even if there is no intent to deceive. In general, I won't pay nearly as much for a tree I can't see in person.

And (to Dario's comment), I don't really see a problem with selling ones lowest end trees, as long as they are not misrepresented as being better stock than they are.

Chris

 

[jkd2572]

95 % of my trees were bought online. I have never had a problem. I Have bought for private parties, auctions and reputable nurseries. All online. It's easy and they get delivered to your door. I recently donated 5 trees to a fundraising club auction for the same reasons brian stated. Basically I culled the bottom. I Also came home from the auction with two very nice trees. Selling trees is a great way to improve your collection. Sell 4 $200 trees and by one $800 tree. Do this enough times and you have a nice collection.

 

[Gene Deci]

When I first started to read this thread, I was interested mainly because I personally couldn’t imagine selling any of my trees - given the caveat that nobody would offer me some outrageous amount for them. So after I read a little I moved to another thread. But after some time to think about it, it occurs to me that there are some pretty profound assumptions underlying the original post here.

There are any number of reasons people do bonsai. I am one, of a minority I expect, who does bonsai mostly because I enjoy the process. Having the best bonsai collection money can buy does not really interest me. I don’t even want the best collection I can afford. My satisfaction comes more from doing it myself, even if the results are less than world class. Almost all my trees were free – collected, or from cuttings or layering. I have a couple of trees that came from nurseries and one from the club auction.

I have invested in some nice pots and a set of quality tools but basically, money plays no role in my pursuit of enjoyment in this hobby. I don’t buy trees on line because, basically, I don’t buy trees. If I have too many trees, I give some away or donate them to the club auction. But I understand that the options I have are not available to everyone and choices I have made do not appeal to everyone. That is one of the reasons I like this forum. You can learn to appreciate different viewpoints all the time.

 

[fourteener]

When I first started to read this thread, I was interested mainly because I personally couldn’t imagine selling any of my trees - given the caveat that nobody would offer me some outrageous amount for them. So after I read a little I moved to another thread. But after some time to think about it, it occurs to me that there are some pretty profound assumptions underlying the original post here.

There are any number of reasons people do bonsai. I am one, of a minority I expect, who does bonsai mostly because I enjoy the process. Having the best bonsai collection money can buy does not really interest me. I don’t even want the best collection I can afford. My satisfaction comes more from doing it myself, even if the results are less than world class. Almost all my trees were free – collected, or from cuttings or layering. I have a couple of trees that came from nurseries and one from the club auction.

I have invested in some nice pots and a set of quality tools but basically, money plays no role in my pursuit of enjoyment in this hobby. I don’t buy trees on line because, basically, I don’t buy trees. If I have too many trees, I give some away or donate them to the club auction. But I understand that the options I have are not available to everyone and choices I have made do not appeal to everyone. That is one of the reasons I like this forum. You can learn to appreciate different viewpoints all the time.

Experiences and desires are vast and valid. I can appreciate the way you are going about it. Enjoy!

 

[Poink88]

There are any number of reasons people do bonsai. I am one, of a minority I expect, who does bonsai mostly because I enjoy the process. Having the best bonsai collection money can buy does not really interest me. I don’t even want the best collection I can afford. My satisfaction comes more from doing it myself, even if the results are less than world class. Almost all my trees were free – collected, or from cuttings or layering. I have a couple of trees that came from nurseries and one from the club auction.

Seems like we share lots of things in common. I buy trees but not trained bonsai (except my very first that I reworked anyway).

 

[JudyB]

Not my best trees, only the ones I've outgrown.

But if you are selling them, try selling here, so at least they go to decent homes.

 

[Thomas J.]

I'm probably gonna do the opposite of everyone here, and sell off some of my top trees. I've gotten to the point where I am getting a little bored with them and am now going in the opposite direction, starting some from seeds, and working on some rejects from other people. Other interests have also come into play and I would hate to see these good trees start to show some neglect on my part. I'm sure someone would love to take over where I left off.

 

[jkd2572]

What I enjoy is the process of making trees better. Another poster said something about not selling trees to improve collection with finished trees. My original post should have stated that I sold trees to buy better pre-bonsai stock to work on. I'm not trying to accumulate a museum just trying to buy the best prebonsai I can so that I'm working on trees that could end up being great and not working on trees for years that will never a have a possible future of being better than what I am selling. My greatest pleasure of the hobby is physically working on trees and improving them. As I grow and learn in the hobby i learn and grow in my eye for stock material and what the possibilities can be. What I knew three years ago and what I know now are night and day. I'm sure that will probably be the case three years from now. There are faults in some trees that can never be fixed. With that in mind I can sell three of those and buy one tree that has better potential. Like everything else in life we grow personally and knowledge and tastes change.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Speaking for myself only, when a hobby grower sells a tree, especially one with a fair amount of time into it, I do suspect it is because they are getting rid of a problem for themselves. If I can see the problem, and think I can handle it, that's great.

I did buy a tree from Ebay, it was a corked barked Japanese Black Pine. The tree I received was far better than the pictures. It does have a 'big flaw', in the nebari, but I think I can work around that given time. This tree has turned out to be my 'most developed' bonsai in my collection. I suspect the seller, who had put quite a number of years into this tree, had decided he did not want to take the time to fix the nebari, because it will take a number of years to do so. But for me it is a new project, and I think I can fix it.

In my home society, at least 2 of our most experienced members and most creative members are beginning to sell off their BEST trees. They are both senior citizens now and are beginning to have trouble moving anything around much larger than shohin. Some of the trees that have found new homes were at one time or another cover photos for bonsai magazines, award winners in the National Show in Rochester, NY or Award winners in other shows. So there are motivations for selling some of ones best. One commented that he was getting bored with big pines, and really did not want to have to wrestle with another 4 foot tall bonsai ever again.

One more reason a non-professional would be selling trees, and probably a very common reason is that they are relocating. Many people have to move, and often it is not practical to bring all their trees with them. And if one is moving to a radically different climate, it is necessary to sell the trees that won't survive in the new climate.

I can see getting bored with material, even very good material. So while I definitely believe the most common reason a non-professional would be selling a tree would be to get rid of a problem, it is clear that there are many, many different reasons one might want to sell off a few trees. So it is "buyer beware", but there are good deals out there.