Which one would you choose?

[Flabonsai]

Looking to purchase a black pine and its between these two. Which looks the best and has the best potential? I'm having trouble deciding. lol

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

number 2 is slightly better.

Neither is great.

 

[Flabonsai]

number 2 is slightly better.

Neither is great.

Thank you for your response.

 

[ihaveaspaceship]

I love 1 with its low movement. Both trees seem equal in quality and the amount of development needed. 2 might have better branching placements though I can't really tell. I think I would do 1 based on the photos.

 

[River's Edge]

Looking to purchase a black pine and its between these two. Which looks the best and has the best potential? I'm having trouble deciding. lol

I would keep looking rather than spend money on those!
At the very least look for a good base, taper and branch formation on outside bends. Avoid straight boring sections or long curving bends with no taper or change of direction.
If they were very cheap and you wish material to learn on then perhaps.

 

[misfit11]

It looks as though the base on the first one is a bit nicer than the second. I'd like to see a better picture. The movement in the first is a bit nicer as well. I would do away with that jin at the top personally. While I love deadwood on my trees, Black Pines don't typically have deadwood as it rots quite readily (esp. in Florida) and Black Pines are usually prized for their bark. Plus, that jin looks kinda silly, IMO.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I would keep looking rather than spend money on those! At the very least look for a good base, taper and branch formation on outside bends. Avoid straight boring sections or long curving bends with no taper or change of direction.

I agree. I don't want you to get disheartened but both trees have quite significant structural issues that can not be easily fixed. I think the lack of taper is what bothers me the most.

You could spend ten years trying to fix these issues... which may not be fixable. Or buy a better piece of pre-bonsai, that even if it were substantially younger/smaller you could invest ten years in and end up in a much better place.

 

[Flabonsai]

Here's a few more pictures of different angles.

 

[Flabonsai]

I love 1 with its low movement. Both trees seem equal in quality and the amount of development needed. 2 might have better branching placements though I can't really tell. I think I would do 1 based on the photos.

I posted a few more pics of them.

 

[Flabonsai]

I agree. I don't want you to get disheartened but both trees have quite significant structural issues that can not be easily fixed. I think the lack of taper is what bothers me the most.

You could spend ten years trying to fix these issues... which may not be fixable. Or buy a better piece of pre-bonsai, that even if it were substantially younger/smaller you could invest ten years in and end up in a much better place.

Thank you for being honest. That's another reason I wanted to post them. I thought the Jin was neat and never seen that on a black pine but I guess it doesn't really belong on a black pine.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Thank you for being honest. That's another reason I wanted to post them. I thought the Jin was neat and never seen that on a black pine but I guess it doesn't really belong on a black pine.

I actually spent some time in Photoshop creating virts to see what I would do. Right now neither tree has an apex. So you need to think about which branch you would use as an apex, and when it was wired up, what the trunk line would look like. I ended up moving pretty far down the trunk before I found a good branch in the right spot for a good apex that would leave you with a good trunk line and the potential to start working on developing taper. You would be left with a lot of dead trunk above your apex, so I started thinking in terms of a hollow dead trunk towards the top (the opposite of the current pointed jin), moving down to a shari so you didn't have an abrupt horizontal line on the trunk.

It could definitely be done. However it's a lot of work and not for the faint of heart. And there is a good chance that what you ended up with would not be convincing - even if you executed it well - and you would end up with a thick tree with little taper that the entire design was developed to hide the flaws... instead of being a truly inspirational design. Hard to say.

 

[Adair M]

Thank you for being honest. That's another reason I wanted to post them. I thought the Jin was neat and never seen that on a black pine but I guess it doesn't really belong on a black pine.

The reason you’ve never seen that on a black pine is they don’t look good with them!

 

[River's Edge]

Not sure what pines cost in your neck of the woods, but a younger smaller tree will likely result in a better tree! Here is a rough example of what might be a better choice. It is only 6 years old but has decent roots, some flare, lower movement, lots of branch options and two steps in place to develop further taper! Many similar pines are available in the USA for $100 to $150.
I have drawn a couple of lines to show the eventual options for removing sacrifice leaders and developing further taper. I appreciate it can be difficult to visualize in a picture, but I hope it helps. Just a thought!

 

[Paradox]

I would not buy either of them.
As someone stated, they both have some serious flaws.
The jin on the top of one does not look natural at all
and the other one has a long, very straight section below the current apex that has no branches

 

[Flabonsai]

Thank you everyone for the comments. I think i'll just hold off and see what else comes along.

 

[Flabonsai]

I actually spent some time in Photoshop creating virts to see what I would do. Right now neither tree has an apex. So you need to think about which branch you would use as an apex, and when it was wired up, what the trunk line would look like. I ended up moving pretty far down the trunk before I found a good branch in the right spot for a good apex that would leave you with a good trunk line and the potential to start working on developing taper. You would be left with a lot of dead trunk above your apex, so I started thinking in terms of a hollow dead trunk towards the top (the opposite of the current pointed jin), moving down to a shari so you didn't have an abrupt horizontal line on the trunk.

It could definitely be done. However it's a lot of work and not for the faint of heart. And there is a good chance that what you ended up with would not be convincing - even if you executed it well - and you would end up with a thick tree with little taper that the entire design was developed to hide the flaws... instead of being a truly inspirational design. Hard to say.

Thank you for spending some time and trying to see what you could come up with. I really appreciate it.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Unless being given away. neither! First has straight middle and top sections. Second has straight top section and trunk has boring one dimensional curve. As Frank said keep looking.