Whitebark Pine yamadori

[Diggumsmack2]

Recently found this little gem on a craggy mountain slope in Connecticut. Without a jackhammer, I don't have the confidence to even try to collect this beautiful specimen.
View attachment 393606

 

[kinon_]

Nice pines! It's nice to see other's with whitebark pines.

I've got a couple of three year old seedlings that were purchased (not collected). It might take a lifetime until they are bonsai but in the meanwhile I really enjoy their foliage.

They were labeled as whitebarks, but the needles look a bit more blue than the ones I've seen in photos, and a bit long. The needles are smooth both ways. Would anyone be able to confirm?

 

[Potawatomi13]

Yeah, I tried. Disappointing. On the plus side the discussion motivated me to go chat with the FS and get some actual guidance. Hopefully it's useful to someone else here as well.

@jevanlewis I forgot that I said I would post a photo of my tree and the marks I have on one branch. Hopefully it's ok. I applied a fungicide and will keep an eye on it.

View attachment 393586 View attachment 393593

And yes, everyone, this was dug under a permit in a district that did not list whitebark pine as restricted when I picked up the permit. Incidentally, when I returned home I found evidence of blister rust infection on one small branch, which I had missed when I dug it up. Presumably the tree would have eventually died. I removed that branch:

View attachment 393605

I plan to provide fungicide every fall to prevent future infection, and will watch of other branches and evidence of existing rust. From what I gather removing the entire branch should have removed the disease from this particular tree. Fingers crossed.

Nice collection and many thanks for efforts to save this one.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Recently found this little gem on a craggy mountain slope in Connecticut. Without a jackhammer, I don't have the confidence to even try to collect this beautiful specimen.
View attachment 393606View attachment 393617

Pretty sure not WBP nevertheless is GREAT looking tree from anyplace.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Nice pines! It's nice to see other's with whitebark pines.

I've got a couple of three year old seedlings that were purchased (not collected). It might take a lifetime until they are bonsai but in the meanwhile I really enjoy their foliage.

They were labeled as whitebarks, but the needles look a bit more blue than the ones I've seen in photos, and a bit long. The needles are smooth both ways. Would anyone be able to confirm?

Needle length may be consequence of excessively shady location. Full sun highly recommended as long as not drying out or cooking roots. Plastic cups lousy pots make. Highly recommend these next Spring:
https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://jardinjasmin.com/catalogue/userfiles/productlargeimages/product_6896.jpg&imgrefurl=http://jardinjasmin.com/catalogue/product.php?ProductID=5205&UILanguage=EN&tbnid=26fp0LWG3ONaEM&vet=12ahUKEwinoK_Y_8jyAhUDK30KHf8RAy8QMygPegUIARD4Ag..i&docid=tdo6QXF3fzuA1M&w=576&h=326&q=Terra cotta Bulb pot&client=firefox-b-1-d&ved=2ahUKEwinoK_Y_8jyAhUDK30KHf8RAy8QMygPegUIARD4Ag
BULB TERRACOTTA POT

 

[Potawatomi13]

Nice pines! It's nice to see other's with whitebark pines.

I've got a couple of three year old seedlings that were purchased (not collected). It might take a lifetime until they are bonsai but in the meanwhile I really enjoy their foliage.

They were labeled as whitebarks, but the needles look a bit more blue than the ones I've seen in photos, and a bit long. The needles are smooth both ways. Would anyone be able to confirm?

Needle length may be consequence of excessively shady location. Full sun highly recommended as long as not drying out or cooking roots. Plastic cups lousy pots make. Highly recommend these next Spring: BULB TERRACOTTA POT wider than deep flower pots. Drill several extra drainage holes and set to go.

 

[August44]

Recently found this little gem on a craggy mountain slope in Connecticut. Without a jackhammer, I don't have the confidence to even try to collect this beautiful specimen.
View attachment 393606View attachment 393617

Wow, those are really nice trees. Are those all 5 needle Whitebark pines? They are very healthy a green. I have not seen Whitebark look like that around here. Are you allowed to collect them there? Thanks for the show.

 

[rockm]

Wow, those are really nice trees. Are those all 5 needle Whitebark pines? They are very healthy a green. I have not seen Whitebark look like that around here. Are you allowed to collect them there? Thanks for the show.

Probably a Pitch Pine. White bark don't live in Connecticut. Pitch pine make excellent bonsai. This one, if that's what it is, is a great find, only as Diggum said, it most likely uncollectable because it's growing out of a rock face. The roots probably reach far back into that rock.

 

[Bu-Jetjet]

I really wish we could have intelligent discusions here. Please just stop the petty name calling, everyone.

I emailed a local ranger district and got in touch with their silviculturalist. This is what he said:

• Me: As a "candidate" species for threatened status, is there an implied global do-not-transplant requirement for whitebark pine (say, across the PNW), or is it still a local district or forest decision?
• Him: There is no implied restriction regionally. Should whitebark pine officially become a threatened species there could be some direction from our Regional Office, which manages Washington and Oregon forests, to restrict harvesting the species. Or, maybe not. Due to its high elevation habitat, I would imagine much of the whitebark pine in the PNW is located in designated wilderness which in itself restricts plants from being harvested. So it may be up to the individual forest to determine if it needs additional protections for the tree beyond wilderness protection.

• Me: More generally, if I ask a permit office "what can't I collect in your district" and they give me a list, can I treat that as the final say? Or am I on the hook to do research myself to make sure they didn't omit some restricted species? If the latter, what is the definitive place I look to make sure I've got the right list?
• Him: Each Forest is responsible for letting you know what is restricted, so yes you can treat this as the final say.

So, as far as I'm concerned, the expectation of all of us is to ask each district for their do-not-touch list, when acquiring permits. That is the source of truth.

As an aside, he also highlighted the other key ways threatened species are protected, even if not officially designated so. Wilderness areas, national parks, etc. that forbid any collection at all. I for one can attest that it is very hard to get high enough in Washington, in legal areas, to even reach whitebark pines.

Thanks for posting this, it definitely helps as a reference!

 

[ghues]

Yeah, I tried. Disappointing. On the plus side the discussion motivated me to go chat with the FS and get some actual guidance. Hopefully it's useful to someone else here as well.

@jevanlewis I forgot that I said I would post a photo of my tree and the marks I have on one branch. Hopefully it's ok. I applied a fungicide and will keep an eye on it.

View attachment 393586 View attachment 393593

And yes, everyone, this was dug under a permit in a district that did not list whitebark pine as restricted when I picked up the permit. Incidentally, when I returned home I found evidence of blister rust infection on one small branch, which I had missed when I dug it up. Presumably the tree would have eventually died. I removed that branch:

View attachment 393605

I plan to provide fungicide every fall to prevent future infection, and will watch of other branches and evidence of existing rust. From what I gather removing the entire branch should have removed the disease from this particular tree. Fingers crossed.

Good luck with this one. The cohost for the blister rust is the currant (Ribes), a pretty flower in spring but ........

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

More on co hosts…. It gets even more interesting then that… indian paint brush (Castillija spp.) and snapdragon (Pedicularis spp.) have been discovered to be alternate hosts as well.…. likely for lack of preferred hosts. So maybe others are hidden in the background.

This makes sense as back in the CCC days crews of foresters swarmed the forests out here, ripping out ribes hither and yon to save the magnificent stands of Western White Pines from this disease. Didn’t work.

Which means a whole host of hosts.

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[ghues]

More on co hosts…. It gets even more interesting then that… indian paint brush (Castillija spp.) and snapdragon (Pedicularis spp.) have been discovered to be alternate hosts as well.…. likely for lack of preferred hosts. So maybe others are hidden in the background.

This makes sense as back in the CCC days crews of foresters swarmed the forests out here, ripping out ribes hither and yon to save the magnificent stands of Western White Pines from this disease. Didn’t work.

Which means a whole host of hosts.

Cheers
DSD sends

Fortunately they have found some resistant strains and from working with the research we have been able to start to reestablish WWP but at a scattered approach rather than pure stands.

 

[El Duderino]

I think it's hilarious that you guys think I'm a millennial.

You called someone Boomer. Even if you’re not a millennial, that’s some dumb shit they (y’all) would say.

The obsession you guys with calling out petty name calling when you are the only ones doing it is also hilarious and seems to be a common way of shutting down actual discussion on this forum.

You called someone Boomer in a rude way. This was the first incident of name calling.

I won't give up.

Nor will the people who are calling out your lack of understanding of both the law and the subject at hand.

 

[Diggumsmack2]

Wow, those are really nice trees. Are those all 5 needle Whitebark pines? They are very healthy a green. I have not seen Whitebark look like that around here. Are you allowed to collect them there? Thanks for the show

No, unfortunately this was my first post here on the forum and I goofed it up. Those are definitely Pitch Pines, 3 slightly twisty needles per fascicle. I posted under the Whitebark Pines by accident. sorry all. As far as legally collecting, I did not research that at all. I was out just enjoying nature's work.

 

[August44]

No, unfortunately this was my first post here on the forum and I goofed it up. Those are definitely Pitch Pines, 3 slightly twisty needles per fascicle. I posted under the Whitebark Pines by accident. sorry all. As far as legally collecting, I did not research that at all. I was out just enjoying nature's work.

Those are very nice! Are they sold locally in nurseries and/or can you collect them there?

 

[Diggumsmack2]

Those are very nice! Are they sold locally in nurseries and/or can you collect them there?

I personally have not seen them for sale in Connecticut. I've collected cones and grown a bunch from seed. I know of 4 or 5 areas were the Pitch Pine naturally grows. In North Haven Ct. there is a Pitch Pines park where the cones can be found. Also Wharton Brook state park has many Pitch Pines.

 

[rockm]

Those are very nice! Are they sold locally in nurseries and/or can you collect them there?

Pitch pine (pinus rigida) is a long-time U.S. native bonsai subject. It is fairly common in the Eastern U.S., from Maine to Georgia. It grows on ridges in the Appalachians and in the sand in places like the New Jersey Jersey pine barrens. It is one of the few pine species that will sprout new growth from old wood kind of like a deciduous tree. It can be collected (with permits) and can be bought in local nurseries if you look around.

 

[Shogun610]

Recently found this little gem on a craggy mountain slope in Connecticut. Without a jackhammer, I don't have the confidence to even try to collect this beautiful specimen.
View attachment 393606View attachment 393617

Is that 👁👁 a pitch pine?!?! It is… it is…
.Marone look at the beautiful bark . Ugh I just died , I have a serious love of pitch pine. One day I will be crowned pitch pine king.

 

[Bonsai_in_the_PNW]

Posting a Whitebark Pine (I think) yamadori I collected (legally) in the Central Cascades in May 2021. It's not a great specimen--it's young and has a very challenging truck that I'll have to get creative with--but it's a chance to learn about a type of Pine I don't have yet. Here are some photos with some questions.

Buddy, Washington State PROHIBITS the collection of ALL Whitebark Pines in the state. PLEASE review all NF rules and guidelines BEFORE you collect! PLEASE REFRAIN from driving up to our state to ILLEGALLY collect and complicate future opportunities we may have to collect LEGAL trees in our backyard.

And why the hell are you using fungicides and pesticides on a recently collected tree?? It will do no good! Clearly you have lots to learn and I recommend you start learning before you continue TAKING trees from the native environment that you will inevitably KILL because you have no clue what you're doing.

RESPECT OUR FORESTS!!!

 

[Bonsai_in_the_PNW]

To the OP, I did collect some Whitebark pine from the treeline, I believe, and I can post some photos if you like. I see some sap spots on mine as well but they otherwise seem

Whitebark Pine is a THREATENED Species, please do not continue to collect it. And, PLEASE have RESPECT for the collection rules mandated on Public Lands by the National Forest Service.