Why you cannot keep bonsai trees indoors

[rockm]

Thanks for the advice on adding my location.

Why do I get the feeling that with even the slightest success this can be highly addictive?

Defeat can make it addictive too. Proving to yourself you can do it. It can take a while to get past trying or wanting to keeps trees inside. Outside and “outdoor” trees are MUCH EASIER. Progress is faster

 

[Michael P]

eventually we might join the local Bonsai club once we can understand what we'll be hearing.

Join the club! Bonsai makes more sense in person.

 

[Hedorah]

Defeat can make it addictive too. Proving to yourself you can do it. It can take a while to get past trying or wanting to keeps trees inside. Outside and “outdoor” trees are MUCH EASIER. Progress is faster

I will agree with the one thing one of the posters in this thread said, though it probably wasn't well received, in that if the tree is outside and viewed rarely, it may seem less worthwhile than having it to view in the home all day

We've got a jade colored Asian cabinet in our living room and the tree looks beautiful on it so relegating to strictly outdoors is a shame, however it seems like this kind of thinking is what sends these trees to the bonsai boneyard before their time.

My goal would be to find that happy medium of indoor/outdoor but I don't know what the Ficus is capable of. Lots of trial and error await.

 

[rockm]

The idea of "indoor" bonsai is a Western culture thing. There are no "indoor" bonsai in the Japanese tradition. Trees are brought inside TEMPORARILY and displayed in a Tokoname, but the trees are not permanent residents or interior decor. They are reminders of the natural world OUTSIDE.

There really is no "happy" medium for an indoor tree. Even ficus which are extremely tough, begin to get straggly, leggy and weaker the longer they're kept inside. Ficus really like to have the spring and summer "off" and live outside in full sun to strengthen themselves before they have to struggle through another winter indoors.

 

[Hedorah]

The idea of "indoor" bonsai is a Western culture thing. There are no "indoor" bonsai in the Japanese tradition. Trees are brought inside TEMPORARILY and displayed in a Tokoname, but the trees are not permanent residents or interior decor. They are reminders of the natural world OUTSIDE.

There really is no "happy" medium for an indoor tree. Even ficus which are extremely tough, begin to get straggly, leggy and weaker the longer they're kept inside. Ficus really like to have the spring and summer "off" and live outside in full sun to strengthen themselves before they have to struggle through another winter indoors.

Yup.....just reading so many experiences on the internet there seems to be a huge amount of folks that have tried to get that happy medium and wound up with kindling. I'd rather have it survive and see it once a day instead of watching it die a slow death inside, so outside it goes.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

I had never considered that light wavelengths would have a different quality, similar to food. I was always of the mind that the plant would adapt their leaves to capture the optimal amount of sunlight, but only in intensity, never in quality. I suppose this is why we would have the red and blue LED lights for plants for the optimal spectrum. I always thought that was marketing.

I missed this comment. @JackHammer check out this resource thread that I started on plant lighting...

Thread 'Plant lighting for beginners'

Nov 17, 2015

I am going to start this thread with this post, add to it as I have time, and eventually compile it into an article.

There have been a lot of requests for information on artificial lighting for bonsai (particularly at this time of year). I wanted to write a reference piece that was both scientifically correct, but accessible to people who don't want to learn phytobiology

Let's start with a few basic terms. Many people think of lighting in terms of "watts" or "wattage". This is an incorrect artifact from the days when all lighting was incandescent, was more or less the same...

• Bonsai Nut
• Replies: 139
• Forum: Tools & equipment (incl lighting)

• 

 

[Paradox]

Yup.....just reading so many experiences on the internet there seems to be a huge amount of folks that have tried to get that happy medium and wound up with kindling. I'd rather have it survive and see it once a day instead of watching it die a slow death inside, so outside it goes.

I have part of my mini forest on benches on my back deck. I can go out there with a coffee or adult beverage ofvmy choice and sit on the deck near my mini forest any time.

With strong enough lighting, tropical trees can do fine inside over the winter. Mine grow for me and need trimming at least twice over the winter.

However I would not advocate keeping them inside all year. They are definitely much happier spending the summer out in the real sun.

 

[cishepard]

I'd rather have it survive and see it once a day instead of watching it die a slow death inside, so outside it goes.

Oh man, this is so sad : (
You need more reasons to go outside!
Make a beautiful bonsai garden with benches right next to a deck or patio, and so you can see it from a window, too!
Have a koi pond right next to it - you’ll be out feeding the fish multiple times a day!
Get a little dog that wants to run and play outside with you!
Have an umbrella or covered patio with a propane heater or a fire pit so you can sit out, eat, drink and enjoy yourself rain or shine! BBQ more! Garden parties!
The outside can be made to feel like an extension of your house - no need for your little tree to be lonely - build a dream environment for it and you!

 

[Desert O'Piñon]

Oh man, this is so sad : (
You need more reasons to go outside!
Make a beautiful bonsai garden with benches right next to a deck or patio, and so you can see it from a window, too!
Have a koi pond right next to it - you’ll be out feeding the fish multiple times a day!
Get a little dog that wants to run and play outside with you!
Have an umbrella or covered patio with a propane heater or a fire pit so you can sit out, eat, drink and enjoy yourself rain or shine! BBQ more! Garden parties!
The outside can be made to feel like an extension of your house - no need for your little tree to be lonely - build a dream environment for it and you!

I get your point completely, and I agree, provided the right circumstances. However, some people don't have the resources for some or any of your ideas. But a bench or two made from a couple 2×12 planks and cinder blocks is relatively inexpensive. What would you suggest for those who may not have a yard? I see plenty of people here who live in apartments, and some have a small porch or balcony. They want to grow bonsai as well. But sometimes a person just doesn't have the space. Any suggestions?

 

[Hedorah]

Oh man, this is so sad : (
You need more reasons to go outside!
Make a beautiful bonsai garden with benches right next to a deck or patio, and so you can see it from a window, too!
Have a koi pond right next to it - you’ll be out feeding the fish multiple times a day!
Get a little dog that wants to run and play outside with you!
Have an umbrella or covered patio with a propane heater or a fire pit so you can sit out, eat, drink and enjoy yourself rain or shine! BBQ more! Garden parties!
The outside can be made to feel like an extension of your house - no need for your little tree to be lonely - build a dream environment for it and you!

I get your point completely, and I agree, provided the right circumstances. However, some people don't have the resources for some or any of your ideas. But a bench or two made from a couple 2×12 planks and cinder blocks is relatively inexpensive. What would you suggest for those who may not have a yard? I see plenty of people here who live in apartments, and some have a small porch or balcony. They want to grow bonsai as well. But sometimes a person just doesn't have the space. Any suggestions?

Points taken on both sides and sincerely appreciated.

Our situation is that we just bought our first Bonsai, that we were told was indoors, but after reading many of the opinions here by the members, I decided to heed that advice and put it outside for the good of the tree rather than trying to force a square peg into a round hole.

Because of our admitted inexperience, we feel it's best to merely find out if we can just get it to survive and thrive before investing more time and money into some of the ancillary things suggested ( which btw, all sound very nice)

For now, it's located in the back yard near the patio (off the ground) in indirect sunlight and will be given every chance to survive that we can utilize. I'm confident that continued reading of this site can only increase our chances of success.

 

[mrhuzij1947]

No light on earth can truly simulate sunlight

Window glass filters out certain wavelengths of light so is not a substitute for real sunlight.

Temperate trees need the yearly seasonal cycle of light and temperature for their natural biological rhythm. This can not be reliably simulated indoors.

Air Inside a closed up house is not the same as outside.

In summary: you can not replicate nature Inside a house

So I'm new to Bonsai but I am a very experienced Salt water reef tank keeper for many years. We grow very delicate corals in tanks so it can't be impossible to grow trees indoors?? Just need to think outside the box and experiment. 30 years ago no one could really grow acropora coral in tanks and now its very a common practice. I had so much growth I was selling it back to the fish store I started with. Lots of upkeep / probably expensive but very possible I am leaning towards.

 

[BrianBay9]

So I'm new to Bonsai but I am a very experienced Salt water reef tank keeper for many years. We grow very delicate corals in tanks so it can't be impossible to grow trees indoors?? Just need to think outside the box and experiment. 30 years ago no one could really grow acropora coral in tanks and now its very a common practice. I had so much growth I was selling it back to the fish store I started with. Lots of upkeep / probably expensive but very possible I am leaning towards.

When people say you can't grow bonsai indoors, they mean with reasonable effort and expense. Sure, you can set up a room with optimal conditions, but you'll spend a lot of time and money, you won't want to live in it, and even then the trees will not grow as strongly as they do outdoors. Do you think the coral in your tanks were as vigorous as the same coral on the Great Barrier Reef?

 

[Wulfskaar]

So I'm new to Bonsai but I am a very experienced Salt water reef tank keeper for many years. We grow very delicate corals in tanks so it can't be impossible to grow trees indoors?? Just need to think outside the box and experiment. 30 years ago no one could really grow acropora coral in tanks and now its very a common practice. I had so much growth I was selling it back to the fish store I started with. Lots of upkeep / probably expensive but very possible I am leaning towards.

I have heard it's possible, but requires expensive lighting and other equipment, including humidity control (?).

It's just a lot easier, less expensive, and more effective to put them outside, where they evolved to live over many millions of years. The only thing required is a place to put them. I am extremely blessed to have a large back yard.

 

[mrhuzij1947]

When people say you can't grow bonsai indoors, they mean with reasonable effort and expense. Sure, you can set up a room with optimal conditions, but you'll spend a lot of time and money, you won't want to live in it, and even then the trees will not grow as strongly as they do outdoors. Do you think the coral in your tanks were as vigorous as the same coral on the Great Barrier Reef?

True enough and point taken. Reef keepers developed ways to save delicate corals in tanks. Many of the barrier reef corals that died off due to environmental changes have been restored or being restored based on home based reef keepers methods. I'm sure many of you have that same know how can develop the same thing in a relatively cheap method? I agree with outdoors if you can but where I'm from 6 months of the year its too cold for most trees used for this practice. Really love the info on this forum!! Thanks for the comments!! Looks forward to many more discussions!!

 

[leatherback]

but where I'm from 6 months of the year its too cold for most trees used for this practice

Wow.. Where do you live?

 

[mrhuzij1947]

Wow.. Where do you live?

Northern Part of Canada

 

[Jetson1950]

So I'm new to Bonsai but I am a very experienced Salt water reef tank keeper for many years. We grow very delicate corals in tanks so it can't be impossible to grow trees indoors?? Just need to think outside the box and experiment. 30 years ago no one could really grow acropora coral in tanks and now its very a common practice. I had so much growth I was selling it back to the fish store I started with. Lots of upkeep / probably expensive but very possible I am leaning towards.

Ah, yes. Another reef keeper. I’m the same, but I’ve also been growing things since I was very young. As with our corals, you can tell when they are unhappy even when you think everything in the tank is perfect. In some ways I agree with you, but unlike the reef tank, there are things that are almost impossible that the trees need that you can replicate indoors unless you go absolutely over the top on expense to give them what comes naturally outdoors. For one wind. Trees without wind won’t feel a need to thicken up and become strong to counter it. Temperature changes along with the changing seasons to key them to start getting ready for the next season. UV light from the full spectrum sun. CO2 levels in an enclosed environment is much different from outdoors. Is you want to try, pick a tree and have two of them. Grow one indoors and one outside. See and watch the differences in their growth patterns.

My other habit…….i mean hobby.

 

[blackadam]

including humidity control (?).

Growbox .. Too dry - get water trays or sprinkle, to wet - vent box or use fans..
More plants seems to make specific humid microclimate..

For one wind. Trees without wind won’t feel a need to thicken up and become strong to counter it

I can clearly see this in my pommes(same fruit and time of sow, one batch kept indoor another outdoor - gonna take some pictures tomorow

 

[mrhuzij1947]

Ah, yes. Another reef keeper. I’m the same, but I’ve also been growing things since I was very young. As with our corals, you can tell when they are unhappy even when you think everything in the tank is perfect. In some ways I agree with you, but unlike the reef tank, there are things that are almost impossible that the trees need that you can replicate indoors unless you go absolutely over the top on expense to give them what comes naturally outdoors. For one wind. Trees without wind won’t feel a need to thicken up and become strong to counter it. Temperature changes along with the changing seasons to key them to start getting ready for the next season. UV light from the full spectrum sun. CO2 levels in an enclosed environment is much different from outdoors. Is you want to try, pick a tree and have two of them. Grow one indoors and one outside. See and watch the differences in their growth patterns.

My other habit…….i mean hobby.

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Nice !!! What size tank? how old? Just switched my 250 gal tank to planted fresh water 2 years ago. I'll get some pictures up later today when I'm home. My reef was 10 years old at the time of the switch to fresh water. Too busy with work to keep my reef looking good / healthy so went to fresh water planted community tank.

 

[Jetson1950]

Nice !!! What size tank? how old? Just switched my 250 gal tank to planted fresh water 2 years ago. I'll get some pictures up later today when I'm home. My reef was 10 years old at the time of the switch to fresh water. Too busy with work to keep my reef looking good / healthy so went to fresh water planted community tank.

It was an 200 gallon WaterBox reef system. Actually I shut down the tank last year and went fully into bonsai. My daughter presented me with a granddaughter and that means a lot more traveling for a while. It’s a lot easier to leave the trees to their own devices outside for weeks at a time than the tank was. I gave away all the corals and sold all the equipment. All my friends that I gave the coral to promised me frags if I get back in the hobby. I loved the tank, but as you know, it’s very hard to find ever an experience reef keeper that understands your tanks chemistry and temperament to keep it from crashing. Now it’s bonsai and full time grandpa.