Winged Elm - Oak Style

[Rodrigo]

I purchased a winged elm about 6 months ago that supposedly was a root cutting. This will be a progression of this tree, which I'm trying to style like an old Oak you'd find in the middle of a field.
Here is an inspiration of what I'm going for



Unfortunately I didn't take any pictures when I got it but a few days ago I defoliated, pruned, and wired it up for the first time.
Before defoliation

After defoliation, before pruning


The picture below is what became the front

After pruning and wiring. First picture is current front

I'll be repotting probably into the same pot next spring to continue developing the primary branches and then into some kind of thin oval pot the following spring.

Before and after pruning and wiring

 

[czaczaja]

That one will be a handful to prune

 

[Michael P]

Nice start! I have a somewhat similar Chinese elm, also from a root cutting.

 

[Rodrigo]

That one will be a handful to prune

Looking forward to it!

 

[Rodrigo]

Nice start! I have a somewhat similar Chinese elm, also from a root cutting.

Thanks!
That's awesome. Root cuttings seem to make good trees
This one has what looks to be a good start to the nebari, I'm interested to see what it looks like when I repot

 

[Dabbler]

What a cool little tree - once it gets a pot it will look really good

 

[Rodrigo]

The wound at the top of the tree is flat cut and i know it's not going to heal properly like that. I'd like to hollow it out all the way down since it's so short anyways, kind of like this elm that belongs to my mentor



Can anyone tell me when is a good time to do that and how far to the edges can I remove?

 

[Tieball]

I would let it continue to roll over more so the hollowing does look more natural and more similar to your mentor's tree. I can see the development of the rollover even on the lowest sides. It should begin to roll up more.

I have a similar oak trunk low and chopped almost like yours. I let it roll more and now it has a good roll all around. Now I can see where I want the carved hole and what shape it will be. In the summer I did a first carving down to just reach where the lowest rollover development was started. I just touched the edge of that low area. Now it’s looking much more natural and beginning to roll over the sharp chop edge. I want irregular and the waiting for the rollover all around has helped. You have a nice natural shape developing. I'd let the tree help. No photos of my tree though….the tree is put away for the winter.

 

[Rodrigo]

Thanks for the input!
Yeah you're right in that it's starting to roll a bit already, I just wasn't sure if the calus would create a bulge there because it's flat and not concave. I'll leave it for now and see what it does next year.
The other option I was thinking was hollowing the cut just enough to have water collect there and rot out the middle naturally but I'm not sure if that would cause any other issues

 

[Tieball]

Thanks for the input!
Yeah you're right in that it's starting to roll a bit already, I just wasn't sure if the calus would create a bulge there because it's flat and not concave. I'll leave it for now and see what it does next year.
The other option I was thinking was hollowing the cut just enough to have water collect there and rot out the middle naturally but I'm not sure if that would cause any other issues

I would not create a way to collect water there. The tree will respond naturally if you patiently leave it alone. My carving down to where the now-hidden roll was happening provided a new flat surface, on an equal level with the roll, so the rolling would just begin to cover over the new flat area. I hope that makes sense. I’ve taken my time on the trunk I have knowing that what I cut-carve out will not regrow.

Patience and the rollover you have started will soon be more visible. Focus on the branches and growth to thicken them as you visualize. The thickening growth of the branches will contribute to the rollover development….exactly like in nature. The thought process might be best as….leave the hollow alone….focus on other parts of the tree and just observe the rollover changes. The natural appearance will happen. You have excellent branch growth.

 

[Tieball]

What I’ve observed on my oak trunk is that the bark contained the rollover. The bark gave a limit of expansion so the rollover just pushed up, not out for a bulge. Continued rollover as long as the surface is smooth enough for the rollover. Just like nature.

 

[giventofly]

Keep posting updates, got me real curious on how it will develop

 

[Rodrigo]

I would not create a way to collect water there. The tree will respond naturally if you patiently leave it alone. My carving down to where the now-hidden roll was happening provided a new flat surface, on an equal level with the roll, so the rolling would just begin to cover over the new flat area. I hope that makes sense. I’ve taken my time on the trunk I have knowing that what I cut-carve out will not regrow.

Patience and the rollover you have started will soon be more visible. Focus on the branches and growth to thicken them as you visualize. The thickening growth of the branches will contribute to the rollover development….exactly like in nature. The thought process might be best as….leave the hollow alone….focus on other parts of the tree and just observe the rollover changes. The natural appearance will happen. You have excellent branch growth.

Thanks again @Tieball, I'll leave it for now then and let the tree guide in that healing. I really wouldn't mind it being hollowed out as I think it would create more age and interest in the tree but you're right that if anything, it's better for the tree to react the way it needs to like in nature to create the most natural end result.

Keep posting updates, got me real curious on how it will develop

I'll definitely be keeping this thread updated! I'm also curious as to how it's going to develop

 

[Rodrigo]

Update on this elm

It was the last one of my trees to bud out this spring. When I bought it last (early) summer, it didn't really grow at all for the rest of the season either, not sure if they're correlated but it's an interesting observation.
Anyways, the drainage was pretty bad so when it finally did start pushing, I repotted it.


I probably could've gotten away with a top soil change as far as drainage, but I'm glad I did the full repot as there were a few layers of roots growing on top of each other that I was able to correct.
One side of the nebari is good, which I made my front, but other will definitely need root grafts. I have some elm cuttings but I'm not sure if they're siberian, lace bark, or winged elms anyone know what happens if I use the wrong one?



And here it is about 20 days later (Pic below taken 4/11/24)


Two issues with this elm:
1. Unfortunately I messed up the potting angle a bit so I have the pot on shims to correct the planting angle. I'll have to fix that next time when I do the root grafts.
2. It got leafs galls this year for some reason. Not too horribly, maybe 10-15 leaves have them but from my research, when these appear, the insect that caused them is long gone and they don't really harm the tree so I'm just leaving them for now. I'll have to be on top of insecticide treatment better from now on




I took the wire off yesterday since I put it on since last fall and I didn't want it to bite in. It got dark on me though so I couldn't take pictures. I'll be sure to do thag tonight

 

[Tieball]

If, when, I get leaf galls, I remove the leases affected immediately and dispose of the leaves in the trash. The gall is a protective Wrap produced to protect the eggs. I don’t take chances…I remove the leaves. The Elm trees always grows back with a new leaf or branch where the removal happened.

Excellent work you've done on this tree. I really appreciate the documentation and chatter about what’s happening.

My American Elms have a continuous habit of producing massive root formations. And I drastically cut the roots back every second or third year.

Well done @Rodrigo This will be a mighty fine tree!

 

[Rodrigo]

If, when, I get leaf galls, I remove the leases affected immediately and dispose of the leaves in the trash. The gall is a protective Wrap produced to protect the eggs. I don’t take chances…I remove the leaves. The Elm trees always grows back with a new leaf or branch where the removal happened.

Excellent work you've done on this tree. I really appreciate the documentation and chatter about what’s happening.

My American Elms have a continuous habit of producing massive root formations. And I drastically cut the roots back every second or third year.

Well done @Rodrigo This will be a mighty fine tree!

Thanks for the input! I went ahead and removed the infected leaves and threw them out.

Yeah this tree seems to put on crazy amount of roots, unfortunately it's very one sided though, which I plan to correct next repot and hopefully set up a nice nebari.

I appreciate the kind words, I'm looking forward to seeing where I can take this tree in the upcoming years!

 

[Rodrigo]

I was finally able to take a picture of this tree without wires.



Like I mentioned in a previous post, I probably could've left them on longer because they weren't biting in yet but I wanted to be sure. The only one I left wired was the very bottom branch I want almost touching the ground since I figured it was the heaviest bend and longest to set.
It seems the curves I put into the branches somewhat stayed but not 100%. Luckily the overall branch placement and angles I wired stayed overall so one or two more rounds of wiring and it should be good.