Ruddigger
Omono
No pictures is a stupid policy.
8th U.S. National Bonsai Exhibition, Rochester, NY, USA, September 9-10, 2023
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chicago1980
Omono
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Absolutely agree.
Shogun610
Masterpiece
RosePastry
Yamadori
Its fine with me. I can buy a book but I get to take pictures of all the trees and pots I can't (shouldn't) buy.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
The "stupid" comments about the photos are tedious. Used to hear stuff like that when I managed large events for corporations.
The no photos policy is up to Bill V. It's his event. You may consider it "stupid" but you're not trying to recoup the investment in the show. You may not think it impacts anything, but obviously Bill V. thinks otherwise (and since he's been putting the show on for quite some time, he would know). I have a feeling one of the reasons no photos are allowed in the exhibit is to speed visitors through it and not choke off the aisles with a hundred selfie portraitists, and/or risk one of those people--either taking a photo or someone trying to avoid someone taking a photo--bumps into a bench, knocking a tree off and destroying or damaging someone's tree (for which Bill V's insurance might be liable).
Events like this are expensive, logistics are a pain in the ass, expected and unexpected costs mount up, people complain, complain and complain...Some of those complaints are valid and should be addressed. Most are just quibbles. Buy the album, stop whining.
The no photos policy is up to Bill V. It's his event. You may consider it "stupid" but you're not trying to recoup the investment in the show. You may not think it impacts anything, but obviously Bill V. thinks otherwise (and since he's been putting the show on for quite some time, he would know). I have a feeling one of the reasons no photos are allowed in the exhibit is to speed visitors through it and not choke off the aisles with a hundred selfie portraitists, and/or risk one of those people--either taking a photo or someone trying to avoid someone taking a photo--bumps into a bench, knocking a tree off and destroying or damaging someone's tree (for which Bill V's insurance might be liable).
Events like this are expensive, logistics are a pain in the ass, expected and unexpected costs mount up, people complain, complain and complain...Some of those complaints are valid and should be addressed. Most are just quibbles. Buy the album, stop whining.
RosePastry
Yamadori
On a slightly off topic question.
This will also be my first time in new york. I am stopping by lake erie today since the distance is pretty long to motorbike in one day.
Are there any other places nutters are going to in the area? Or maybe food to reccomend before going back in to look at more trees?
This will also be my first time in new york. I am stopping by lake erie today since the distance is pretty long to motorbike in one day.
Are there any other places nutters are going to in the area? Or maybe food to reccomend before going back in to look at more trees?
jszg
Shohin
If they are, i'd appreciate a Saturday ticket - I'll "buy" it from you full price
Ruddigger
Omono
The "stupid" comments about the photos are tedious. Used to hear stuff like that when I managed large events for corporations.
The no photos policy is up to Bill V. It's his event. You may consider it "stupid" but you're not trying to recoup the investment in the show. You may not think it impacts anything, but obviously Bill V. thinks otherwise (and since he's been putting the show on for quite some time, he would know). I have a feeling one of the reasons no photos are allowed in the exhibit is to speed visitors through it and not choke off the aisles with a hundred selfie portraitists, and/or risk one of those people--either taking a photo or someone trying to avoid someone taking a photo--bumps into a bench, knocking a tree off and destroying or damaging someone's tree (for which Bill V's insurance might be liable).
Events like this are expensive, logistics are a pain in the ass, expected and unexpected costs mount up, people complain, complain and complain...Some of those complaints are valid and should be addressed. Most are just quibbles. Buy the album, stop whining.
Its not because I’m too cheap to buy a book, it’s because it limits exposure for the show. PBE was all over social media. I’m looking forward to comparing the two shows now.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Not the same thing. West coast shows have heavy tech influence. East coast not so much. Limit exposure how? It's sold out. Has been every year its been held...
Ruddigger
Omono
Looks like Sunday tickets are still available.
Curious what “tech influence” you’re referring to?
penumbra
Imperial Masterpiece
Just want to wish everyone who is able to go the best time ever. I wanted to go badly, but I have had some cardio condition for which I will recieve treatment the end of October. This is also the reason I have not been on this site as much as I used to. Don't want to fuss over that, just want you to know I think its fabulous if you can make it, and don't put such things off or you may miss the opportunity.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
That there are tickets available on Sunday doesn't really indicate anything, other than that this show follows the same pattern as hugely popular mainstream trade shows. They always have issues with last day attendance, even the huge Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in Vegas. On the last day, everyone is thinking about getting home, loading out, etc. Events organizers specifically schedule big "headliners" on last days in hopes of keeping attendance up. Never really works, as attendees always dwindle to nothing after noon on the last day.
As for the tech influence on the west coast, that's rather obvious with tech centers in Washington State and California. From the heat map of attendees on the Pacific Bonsai Expo site, most attendees are from the Bay area, heaviest from downtown S.F. Portland also shows a heavy number of attendees, as well. The very fact the expo site HAS an attendee heat map says a lot as well. Even the sponsors of the Pacific Bonsai Expo includes tech entrepreneurs. All that says to me that attendees are heavily digitally and online oriented.
That's certainly not a bad thing. It's a plus --for that show...
The two shows are just different with different influences.
Bill Valavanis is old guard bonsai. He doesn't put as much emphasis on online exposure as others. That may be a bad thing, may be good, who knows. He gets a heavy draw in the bonsai community anyway.
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Colorado
Masterpiece
Oh come on, Rock! You know exactly how it limits exposure.
It limits exposure on social media and the internet.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
see my posts above. "Limiting" on social media? maybe, but limiting potential damage to trees at the show from people bumping and breaking limbs twigs, etc. trying to get a shot or squeezing past a clot of photographers in narrow aisles? Which is more limiting-- insurance premiums or more Insta posts?
Colorado
Masterpiece
Insurance premiums? Sorry, but I am not buying what you’re selling on this one, my friend!
I personally don’t see how someone snapping a pic on their iPhone increases the risk to the trees in any significant way.
Seems like an outdated policy to me. Just my 2 cents.
Shogun610
Masterpiece
Younger people like to take photos on their phones to remember annd show their friends / family and also have reference to, a book is fine but it just is another hurdle, and can’t be shared as easily . I think the east coast mentality of not welcoming younger enthusiasts / practitioners spills over to preventing photos of the trees as just one example. Even if the person just takes a quick photo and doesn’t hold up the walking lane of someone
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Not true. Has been an issue in the past at the show from what I understand.
It is what it is. Talk to Bill. I'm not him. I have just tried to explain why the limitation is in place and why complaining about it doesn't really do any good here. The show is successful. Bill has his hands full running it.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
As for the "mentality" against younger people not being welcome at bonsai events/clubs/practicing on the East Coast, what are you talking about? This is "just one example"? Explain please.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Exhibit organizers can be liable for damages to stuff on exhibit, unless exhibitors require exhibitors and vendors to sign waivers. Even then, claims against exhibition companies and the sponsors of events happen. Someone standing back to find the best angle to snap a pic on their phone can back into a tree/knock a smaller one off a shelf, trip on a bench leg, etc. Break a branch off of a tree that might be evaluated at $10 grand, quite a little unexpected cost center--or worse, have an exhibitor get angry and vindictive about exhibition companies being careless about their trees' safety and sue.
Snapping a photo is not what a lot of people do though, is it? They jockey for position. They stop to frame, reframe and reframe, refocus, get their spouse/kids/significant other in the frame, reframe, refocus--hopefully all this happens without selfie sticks and additional lighting equipment. With insta, they're also looking to do videos, etc. All of that is fine, if there aren't 100 people behind them and around them trying to stay out of the way, get around, or waiting for them to move. It all boils down to many of the same reasons their are laws against using a cell phone in car, when people are on the phone or otherwise occupied they're not paying attention to their surroundings. Mayhem can ensue...
Look, I have no real idea why Bill prohibits photos. The above is PROBABLY factored in, IMO. I have a feeling it's more about protecting trees and ensuring fewer problems, than about making money from the album.
coh
Imperial Masterpiece
Personally, I won't engage in debates about the photo policy, nor will I try to explain why it is in place. That doesn't matter to me. All I know is, visitors agree to abide by show rules when they purchase entry and one of the rules is no photos.
I've been involved in show "security" in the past, basically keeping an eye on things, making sure people aren't touching trees, answering questions, etc. I don't do it anymore and one of the reasons is the photo issue - it puts the volunteers in a difficult position when people openly violate the posted rules (and there are signs _everywhere_ stating no photos). Don't be that person. I'm pretty sure there have been a few visitors that have been asked to leave after being repeatedly asked to stop.
I've been involved in show "security" in the past, basically keeping an eye on things, making sure people aren't touching trees, answering questions, etc. I don't do it anymore and one of the reasons is the photo issue - it puts the volunteers in a difficult position when people openly violate the posted rules (and there are signs _everywhere_ stating no photos). Don't be that person. I'm pretty sure there have been a few visitors that have been asked to leave after being repeatedly asked to stop.
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