Trident Maple from Nursery Stock?

[jasonpg]

Hi All.

I picked up this Trident Maple from a bonsai nursery, and I'm curious how you guys would develop it. Should I do a hard chop to the trunk? Should I air layer it to make two trees?

I need feedback. I'm a noob

Bottom Portion

Top Portion with an added red line to show a hidden branch

 

[barrosinc]

If it were my tree I would chop it just above the first right side branch.
Or maybe even lower.

Some use the rule of thumb to chop at 2x trunk diameter.

http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthr...ible-trees-that-are-currently-over-10-ft-tall

It´s nursery stock, and it seems you are sorta new to the hobby. Just work this down or you loose an entire year for the airlayering.

 

[jasonpg]

If it were my tree I would chop it just above the first right side branch.
Or maybe even lower.

Some use the rule of thumb to chop at 2x trunk diameter.

http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthr...ible-trees-that-are-currently-over-10-ft-tall

It´s nursery stock, and it seems you are sorta new to the hobby. Just work this down or you loose an entire year for the airlayering.

Ah yes. Your post reminded me of a diagram I saw in Bonsai Techniques II. And your placement seems right on par with the 2x trunk diameter rule. Here is what I sketched up ... let me know if this looks correct.

Also - is it too late in the year to do this chop? I'm in Michigan (zone 5a).

 

[barrosinc]

that is what I would do, but I am no expert.
You should probably cut next spring? maybe you can airlayer now... I am not sure about the weather over there.

 

[jasonpg]

that is what I would do, but I am no expert.
You should probably cut next spring? maybe you can airlayer now... I am not sure about the weather over there.

Thank you. I'd also be interested in other opinions, if anyone has them

 

[Adair M]

You can do a diagonal chop if there is a live bud or twig or branch at the bottom of the diagonal chop. If not, the bottom of the trunk may die off. Once you do the chop, you need to let a runner go to help heal the scar. You d need to use some sort of cut paste. One that dries soft, not hard.

 

[jasonpg]

You can do a diagonal chop if there is a live bud or twig or branch at the bottom of the diagonal chop. If not, the bottom of the trunk may die off. Once you do the chop, you need to let a runner go to help heal the scar. You d need to use some sort of cut paste. One that dries soft, not hard.

Thank you for the info. In the image I drew on above, I was going to use the right branch as the new leader after the cut. There is a branch toward the bottom of the cut (it's shown in the photo, the red diagonal slash it through it). Will this suffice?

I wasn't aware there needed to be a bed/twig/branch at the bottom of the cut. Can you point me to somewhere that talks more about that?

 

[jasonpg]

Anyone else have info for this noob?

 

[GrimLore]

I would not chop it until you see it pushing in the Spring. If you chop it now I am pretty certain it will enter Winter not fully recovered. If you air layer it this late the same thought applies. Myself I would leave it be until then and do a horizontal chop just above any healthy branch or branches, or layer it so you land up with two healthy specimens next Fall. My personal experience in 6b puts that on or close to May 15th for best success. My reasoning is a chopped, or separated air layer need six weeks minimum to go into Winter strong.

Grimmy

 

[wireme]

I don't think I've read that about a bud or twig for bonsai chops before. It makes sense when you think of how trees compartmentalize wounds around nodes. Here's a cut that died back below the cut and also pulled back from the sides a bit. Amur maple pruned in the spring last year with concave cutters, no cut paste used.

 

[jasonpg]

I would not chop it until you see it pushing in the Spring. If you chop it now I am pretty certain it will enter Winter not fully recovered. If you air layer it this late the same thought applies. Myself I would leave it be until then and do a horizontal chop just above any healthy branch or branches, or layer it so you land up with two healthy specimens next Fall. My personal experience in 6b puts that on or close to May 15th for best success. My reasoning is a chopped, or separated air layer need six weeks minimum to go into Winter strong.

Grimmy

Thank you for the input regarding timing. Are you recommending a horizontal chop rather than a 45-degree chop?

 

[GrimLore]

Thank you for the input regarding timing. Are you recommending a horizontal chop rather than a 45-degree chop?

I recommended a Horizontal chop based on what I see in the pictures and where I would want to take that tree. Your preference and path can be as you choose. By having the tree for a few more months it is you that will be able to make the call and you will be happiest doing so. You are Authoring it and you can change it down the road if you so please, your tree, your vision, your journey. That is what makes Bonsai a great personal experience

Grimmy

 

[jasonpg]

I went ahead and performed the chop and sealed the wound. My next question would be in regards to the new leader that's growing at the top of the wound. I should let that grow freely, yes?

There is also a branch that is coming straight toward the viewer that I'd like to remove.

 

[Dav4]

To heal the chop wound AND build the next section of trunk, you must let the new leader grow unfettered for several years. Wire it now if you were planning to do so.

 

[jasonpg]

To heal the chop wound AND build the next section of trunk, you must let the new leader grow unfettered for several years. Wire it now if you were planning to do so.

Thank you. I will let the new leader grow out. At the end of each growing season, should I be chopping it back to a certain point? ... if so, what what the point be?

As for wiring, I plan to remove the branch pointing straight forward but keeping the branch on the left side of the tree. I'll wire that one into position ... is it okay to cut that branch back at this point?

 

[Dav4]

Don't cut back until the leader/new trunk has reached the girth you're wanting. You can wire and cut back the other branch now.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

The lower portion of trunk, between the actual cut and the next branch down is likely to die back, unless it sprouts from the chop...which you probably don't need.

I would continue the carving of the chop as shown by the red line, then use cut paste.

Blue lines indicate sacrifice branches to grow out the next section of trunk (upper arrow), and first branches (left-pointing arrows).

yellow lines are where to prune back the smaller growth once, to keep short internodes available for use later close to the trunk...per Smoke.

 

[jasonpg]

yellow lines are where to prune back the smaller growth once, to keep short internodes available for use later close to the trunk...per Smoke.

Thank you for the drawing. When would I make the yellow cuts?

 

[jasonpg]

I exposed the roots a bit more to see what I have to work with.

Front View

Side View

There isn't much for rootage on the left, and on the right, there is a large root and a smaller one that crosses over it. I'm not a fan of Trident Maples with aerial roots ... so I have a few questions:

• How should I deal with the root that crosses over the large root?
• Should I bury the tree back up to the point where the large root becomes aerial-ish?

Thank you for everyone's help.

 

[cmeg1]

The lower portion of trunk, between the actual cut and the next branch down is likely to die back, unless it sprouts from the chop...which you probably don't need.

I would continue the carving of the chop as shown by the red line, then use cut paste.

Blue lines indicate sacrifice branches to grow out the next section of trunk (upper arrow), and first branches (left-pointing arrows).

yellow lines are where to prune back the smaller growth once, to keep short internodes available for use later close to the trunk...per Smoke.

Thanks Brian,I had to save that picture!