Masakuni vs the rest

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Hi All,

So I've been trying to find some more info on Masakuni. Any information would be nice actually. I noticed that Kaneshin's website includes details about the steel, the length of the blade, etc. And when I mean steel, I don't mean stainless vs carbon. Kaneshin talks about how they provide yellow, white, and blue steel tools (which is freaking awesome!). I think it's hilarious when I search for Masakuni on dallasbonsai.com, click on one that's $700 and there is literally no description, just an "add to cart" link.
 
I have no information on masakuni tools at all. Mostly because I couldn't find much besides people saying they are good. I respect that, but some product details help. Kaneshin has a very informative site, as you've said, and that's what persuaded me to order from them. I don't know how good masakuni is, but my kaneshin tools are outstanding and I don't think I'd be inclined to pay more for a tool that couldn't possibly do more.
 
Hi All,

So I've been trying to find some more info on Masakuni. Any information would be nice actually. I noticed that Kaneshin's website includes details about the steel, the length of the blade, etc. And when I mean steel, I don't mean stainless vs carbon. Kaneshin talks about how they provide yellow, white, and blue steel tools (which is freaking awesome!). I think it's hilarious when I search for Masakuni on dallasbonsai.com, click on one that's $700 and there is literally no description, just an "add to cart" link.

Masakuni could care less how the others are forging their tools and I'm sure they're not going to give out their secrets. Their reputation and history of making quality tools is the only explanation they need. Most of the others are just playing catch-up. I'm not saying the only quality tool is Masakuni but those are the facts. Here's their website and manufacturing info:

http://www.masakuni.com/
 
I recently picked up a small pair of branch cutters while in Bangkok at Patchara Gallery near Chatuchak. Closest thing I've ever been to in terms of a bonsai store. Pots of all sizes stacked from the floor to the rafters and a counter with all different types of tools and accessories. Bonsai kids candy store. Anyway, got the pair for around $35 after some diligent negotiations from my Thai friend. Kicking myself now for not buying more. IMG_7499.jpgIMG_7501.jpg
 
When is the last time you've seen a Rolls Royce broke down on the side of the road or an advertisement for their vehicles?
 
So, this might not be what you are looking for however in 2009 someone from KYUKAEN Bonsai in Omiya Japan posted this on an old thread of mine asking about Masakuni Shears. Hope maybe something like this is what you are looking for-this is all subjective info but it's from a professional in Japan. In my opinion, in terms of overall quality both Masakuni and Kaneshin are very high and you can't really go wrong with either brand. I'd say about half my tools are Masakuni and the other half are Kaneshin. I think you might get a little more bang for your buck with Kaneshin, but it also just comes down to personal preference.



The price of MASAKUNI shears differ according to the quality of steel and finish.


No.1, 8001, 2, 8002, 28, 8028 are products of basic line.

They are made of high quality steel and perfectly do
for not only ordinary customers but also professionals.

No.8001- series (silver ones) are covered with anti-rust coating
and the price is about 10% higher.


No.201, 8201, 202, 8202, 228, 8228 are made of steel of better quality
which ensures the long-lasting sharpness.

They costs almost 2 times as much as shears of the basic line
simply because they are made of better steel.


I use neither No.1 nor 2 because their handles are too large for me.

Instead, I use No.103 bud trimming shears (same quality as No.1, 2, 28)
and No.228.

At first, they seemed exactly the same to me
while No.228 was 2 times as expensive as No.103.

After 2 years, I recognized the difference between No. 103 and No.228.

When I close shears, the ends of handles hit each other.
Using No.228, I feel the shock is somehow absorbed,
while No.103 gives me direct shock.
And No.228 weighs light and the balance seems better in the hand.

The diffence will count for something after very long time of use.

But I don’t strongly recommend No.201-.
The price of a single pair of No.201- will cover the combination of
basic MASAKUNI shears and concave cutters.

Two different tools covers wider range of work than a single pair of No.201-.

I recommend No.201- for the customers
who are not satisfied with the basic line or
those who require “more”.


Anyway, it is up to you what to think about the difference.
Some are satisfied with $77,800 basic car of PORCHE 911 and
some require $132,800 PORCHE 911 GT3 RS.
If you are a top racing driver, basic PORCHE may seem dull to you,
while basic PORCHE is out of reach of ordinary citizens.


No.51, 52, 53 are made of steel which is still better than that
used for No.201- to ensure extraordinary durability against repeated use.
They cost more than 3 times as much as the basic line.

I have not used No.51, 52, 53.
They must be excellent tools, but I am very satisfied with No.103 and No.228.


No.101, 102, 128 are basically the same as No.1, 2, 28.

But they are finished by hand-polish and
the signature of "MASAKUNI" is written in golden letters.
They costs almost 5 times as much as the basic line
because of the cost of fine finish.

They are so-called "luxurious models",
similar to a car with leather seats and special ornaments.
They are not the features for practical use,
but they surely satisfy the joy of ownership.


The outlines and details of shears of similar design of different lines are
slightly different, so that you can tell the product number from the appearance.

Compare No.2, 201, 52 and 102.

http://www.masakuni.com/g/g2.htm
http://www.masakuni.com/g/g201.htm
http://www.masakuni.com/g/g52.htm
http://www.masakuni.com/g/g102.htm

It possible to tell the number from the details and
this is important for the manufacture and distributors.


While they are not on MASAKUNI web site, I have to mention SS series.
They are made of corrosion-resisting special steel.

It is not easy to produce tools which cut well by anti-rust steel.
So SS trimming shears cost about 2 times as much as No.1, 2, 28 and
slightly more expensive than No.201, 202, 228.

But you have to make sure that “corrosion-resisting” does not mean ”care-free”.
Even corrosion-resisting steel needs appropriate use and cleaning to keep sharpness.

Frankly speaking, SS series are not profitable
from the manufacturer’s and distributor’s point of view.
The price does not reflect the cost of production.

SS series also have a special feature on their blades.
They can be sharpened with their blades closed,
while you have to open ordinary shears when sharpening them.

Shears made of the same steel as No.1, 2, 28
with this special feature are available as S series.

S series are a little more expensive than No.8001-
because of the cost of production.


This is the price chart of MASAKUNI Shears.

(price high)

Custom made MASAKUNI (best steel, hand finish)




Luxury MASAKUNI No.101, 102, 128. (fourth best steel, hand finish)

Professional MASAKUNI No.51, 52, 53 (second best steel)


SS MASAKUNI SS-1, SS-2, SS-28… (corrosion-resisting steel, special feature)

Advanced MASAKUNI No. 201, 8201, 202, 8202, 228 8228
(third best steel, anti-rust coating models are available for the same price)

S MASAKUNI S-1, S-2, S-28… (fourth best steel, special feature)
Anti-rust coated MASAKUNI No.8001, 8002, 8028… (fourth best steel, anti-rust coating)
Basic MASAKUNI No.1, 2, 28… (fourth best steel)

(price low)
 
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I've got a tool bag full of Masakuni tools that I've been using for almost 40 years now and they all still are great. I could care less about the recipe details of how they're made. I just know they're great and I couldn't afford to buy them now if I lost them. I have one set of Kaneshin shears that I won in a club raffle and they seem every bit as good as my Masakunis.
 
Masakuni is like the difference between a regular car and a real luxury car. You don't have to know a thing about it but when you touch it they are just better. Tighter made, HEAVY, sharp as all get out, they just feel like a high quality tool. The steel is easy to sharpen. I bought other brands and after I use my first Masakuni tool I replaced my other stuff with it. Its a thing my dad always said (he has a cabinet shop) "why buy same tool 10 times when the best can last a lifetime and then some." There are other tools and if you can't afford Masakuni it won't mean you make bad bonsai just means you might buy a few pair of shears during your hobby.
 
I, too, have both Masakuni and Kaneshin. Both have performed just fine. I have duplicate tools of both brands and see practically no difference. The beginner brand that you surely are familiar with are well below the quality of the aforementioned brands. I had a pair of concave cutters of that brand actually break and become nearly unusable because of it. The quality of steel is the only apparent reason. I equate this with "you get what you pay for".
 
http://www.rolls-roycemotorcars.com
They atleast tell you what your getting...

Don't get me wrong, It's really cool there's this mystique and intrigue with Masakuni. It's great, there's character and an added sentimental value already there. But that's not what I was searching for in this post. This is a tool, not a nuclear warhead. I just want a shred of information. I'm not asking for how many seconds the steel is quenched in monk blessed holy water. Just basic info.

Yenling, thanks for digging up that info. There was some interesting things in there.

Carp, thanks for the insightful post...
 
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Look, I’m not trying to sell you on Masakuni tools or piss you off. Hell, I don’t even own any! I bought my quality “other brand” Japanese tools early on and now I’m just waiting for them to wear out or dull before I replace them with Masakuni. In today’s society we have become somewhat obsessed with being able to get information on just about anything (I’m not suggesting you are). Masakuni has been around for 75 years or so and they do business the old fashion way, word-of-mouth. I remember the days when you had to write a letter to individuals or in this case a company to get information about their products. We have come a long way in the last 20 years. Maybe if you call them they’ll give you the information you want? However it turns out, good luck in your endeavor.
 
In today’s society we have become somewhat obsessed with being able to get information on just about anything (I’m not suggesting you are). Masakuni has been around for 75 years or so and they do business the old fashion way, word-of-mouth. I remember the days when you had to write a letter to individuals or in this case a company to get information about their products. We have come a long way in the last 20 years. Maybe if you call them they’ll give you the information you want?

I get your point, Vin. However, I didn't get the impression that the OP wanted to know trade secrets or any details that shouldn't be a part of the advertisement of the goods. He mentions things like the length of the cutting blade, for example. Wanting to know that is kind of essential when buying a cutting tool. Reputation for quality? Great. I'm still going to want to know how many cylinders the engine has and if it is 2wd, 4wd, or awd drive before buying a car, be it Chevy or Mercedes.
 
My understanding of Masakuni tools:

(1) They were the first manufacturer of specialty bonsai tools. Masakuni invented the first bonsai "shear". Reputation goes a long way in Japan.

(2) Their reputation was made on hand-manufacturing versus mass production.

(3) They use extremely high quality steel. It maintains a sharp edge, but rusts easily.

Like a fine auto, to which people in this thread are comparing it, they require a fair level of maintenance. They can never be stored damp, or in damp locations. Same could be said for ANY steel tool, but in the case of Masakuni tools they rust very easily. You should wipe them down with oil after every use.

If you don't sharpen them, at least periodically, there is no difference between these tools and your average run-of-the-mill steel tool. Masakuni is all about the edge - how sharp you can get it and how it holds an edge longer. None of that matters if you use the tool for a year and have not re-sharpened it.

I have several Masakuni tools... but almost never use them. I find myself working a lot with wet trees or in wet conditions. My hands will be wet. The tools get wet and then my tool roll gets wet :) You catch the drift. I went with high-end stainless years ago. But I agree they are very nice.
 
For all intents and purposes a blue steel edge forge welded to iron and heat treated properly is going a long way toward getting you a very nice tool.

These conversations are very similar in woodworking and cutlery, once you achieve a certain level of quality the manufacturers are going to producing pretty similar items with something's beating the other and vice versa.

I have a bunch of tools from Kaneshin including pruners in blue steel, they are top notch.
 
I know nothing about the tools but to build on what B Nut says, Ferraris are made by hand one at a time in very limited quantities. So rare are they that even if you have the cash you would not be allowed to buy one. I know this because I have a friend who is a Ferrari mechanic here in Vegas. It's all he does.

The CEO of my former employer went to them to try and buy one. He was told no. It seems he did not have the social clout. I really enjoyed learning this! He had to settle for a Bentley poor guy. :rolleyes:

Anyway the other part of the story is that after each time a Ferrari is driven for a weekend it has to be brought in to be serviced. They are a bit delicate evidently. I guess one has to decide what their personal priorities are.
 
Great input everyone. Thanks for all the info and insight.

Honestly though, it's kind of a shame to hear that Masakuni's tend to need a lot of extra care and attention. It's hard enough to find extra time as it is.
 
They do not require more care and attention than any other carbon steel tool, they receive more care an attention because they are expensive and generally one takes better care of things one paid a lot for.

I have chisels in my shop akin to masakuni (Koyamaichi by the man himself, not the apprentices) and they get treated especially well, whereas the typical is not as near and dear, but the work should be the same.
 
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