Some facts about bonsai soil

I read all that. There are a lot of words that I have no clue as to what they mean.

I apologize. Every once in a while the geo-techno-geek in me comes out. Bear with me for a correction.

... ash breaks down to form allophane and imogolite, smectitic clay minerals

Correction. Allophone and imogolite are kaolinitic clays, not smectitic. Smectite clays are swelling clays because the silicate sheets are bound by molecular water. They include minerals like bentonite and montmorillinite. They're why those of us here in Houston have to water our the soil around our foundations when it doesn't rain for a while. Kaolinite group clays don't have the bound molecular water and don't swell.
 
I apologize. Every once in a while the geo-techno-geek in me comes out. Bear with me for a correction.



Correction. Allophone and imogolite are kaolinitic clays, not smectitic. Smectite clays are swelling clays because the silicate sheets are bound by molecular water. They include minerals like bentonite and montmorillinite. They're why those of us here in Houston have to water our the soil around our foundations when it doesn't rain for a while. Kaolinite group clays don't have the bound molecular water and don't swell.
Wow! That cleared things up!

So... Since you have to water your trees daily, and I'm sure there's runoff, seems like a good idea to place your benches around the foundation! Kill two birds with one stone!

(Ok, sorry... Beginning to sound like Sorce... I gotta go take my meds...)
 
Wow! That cleared things up!

So... Since you have to water your trees daily, and I'm sure there's runoff, seems like a good idea to place your benches around the foundation! Kill two birds with one stone!

(Ok, sorry... Beginning to sound like Sorce... I gotta go take my meds...)

Sorry –
I don't like to post bad information even if it is Geo – techno – geeky. Even if only one or two people care.
 
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Sigh, like I said, I am afraid to use clay.
In the older books, Akadama is described as a heavy clay loam or just clay soil.
It is interesting how many will buy and at what a price, for a hobby.

K fired a batch of Akadama, a while ago, it was red and definitely a clay.Just not a sapote [ sticky clay ] more akin
to our lower plasticity off-whites found in our gravel pits.

In our climate clay loams will kill trees in pots.

However, what was also described in the older books, was a material that was richer in
pumice. So maybe the source has changed, as the demand depleted the preferred material.
Ideally it seems as though pumice might make more sense.

Fortunately our simple organic/ inorganic mix works well and no need to import anything.
Then we also have a previously mentioned [ BSG ] yellow clay bonded by calcium [ sea formed ] Mayodama.
Good Day
Anthony
 
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Sigh, like I said, I am afraid to use clay.
In the older books, Akadama is described as a heavy clay loam or just clay soil.
It is interesting how many will buy and at what a price, for a hobby.

K fired a batch of Akadama, a while ago, it was red and definitely a clay.Just not a sapote [ sticky clay ] more akin
to our lower plasticity off-whites found in our gravel pits.

In our climate clay loams will kill trees in pots.

However, what was also described in the older books, was a material that was richer in
pumice. So maybe the source has changed, as the demand depleted the preferred material.
Ideally it seems as though pumice might make more sense.

Fortunately our simple organic/ inorganic mix works well and no need to import anything.
Then we also have a previously mentioned [ BSG ] yellow clay bonded by calcium [ sea formed ] Mayodama.
Good Day
Anthony

Sounds like you shouldn't use it then. I've never advised you one way or another due to the simple reason that I don't care what soil you grow your trees in. Grow them in dingleberries and marshmallows as far as I'm concerned. And if I choose to spend my hard earned money on akadama, I really don't see what business it is of yours and I have no clue why you would care either.

?

Scott
 
Sounds like you shouldn't use it then. I've never advised you one way or another due to the simple reason that I don't care what soil you grow your trees in. Grow them in dingleberries and marshmallows as far as I'm concerned. And if I choose to spend my hard earned money on akadama, I really don't see what business it is of yours and I have no clue why you would care either.

?

Scott

I don't think Anthony is really arguing that people shouldn't buy akadama. Some people obviously do, but it seems like they've come to that conclusion without much thought. Same goes for the people who are against others using turface. Or those that you must buy sensei Chuck's special mix of 5 mm crushed billiard balls and shredded corn cobs to assure healthy roots.
 
I don't think Anthony is really arguing that people shouldn't buy akadama. Some people obviously do, but it seems like they've come to that conclusion without much thought. Same goes for the people who are against others using turface. Or those that you must buy sensei Chuck's special mix of 5 mm crushed billiard balls and shredded corn cobs to assure healthy roots.

I reacted to the "sigh" and to the condescending comment that he made about how interesting it is that people would waste so much money on a hobby. Perhaps you're right and he's just very concerned about my finances.

As I said before, I don't care if people grow their trees in seaweed or gold-plated akadama except in the rare instance I buy a tree from someone else. Because that season I will pull it out of whatever they're growing their tree in and put it in what I grow mine in. I'm very reluctant to buy conifers in heavy, organic rich soil, for instance, because I know it will be a 2-3 year journey to get them out of that and into my growing medium. But if people like to grow their trees in that, more power to em. Don't care. And I certainly don't care for anyone's opinion about the substrate I use to grow my trees. I'm the one who has to take care of them, and until people start showing up in my back yard to take care of the watering, repotting, fertilizing, wiring, and pruning for me, I have a special file into which to put all of those opinions.
 
I'm the one who has to take care of them, and until people start showing up in my back yard to take care of the watering, repotting, fertilizing, wiring, and pruning for me, I have a special file into which to put all of those opinions.

There you go! That one sentence pretty much sums it up.
 
@markyscott,

you seem to have missed where I stated that clay makes me nervous, and then Sifu [ Adair ] said
Akadama was not clay.
Hence my - Sigh - after both you and Al, showed it was clay and Sifu would not accept the reality.

Additionally from what I read, Akadama, was originally a pumice based material with clay as an impurity.

Thanks @GroveKeeper.
Good Day
Anthony
 
It's not clay like our native "Georgia Red" clay. It has a different granularity. Our clay is not volcanic. Akadama is.

I still don't know how Al made a yellow (or tan) pot out of akadama. My akadama is red. Not saying he didn't do it, just confused how/why the color changed.
 
It's not clay like our native "Georgia Red" clay. It has a different granularity. Our clay is not volcanic. Akadama is.

I still don't know how Al made a yellow (or tan) pot out of akadama. My akadama is red. Not saying he didn't do it, just confused how/why the color changed.
Maybe you should pour some in a bowl mix some water with it and knead it into a clay substance. Mold or free form it into a pot and let it dry for a few days in the sun and then take a picture and post it here. I would be very eager to see your red pot....I don't think your red soil is as red as you think it is.
 
Maybe you should pour some in a bowl mix some water with it and knead it into a clay substance. Mold or free form it into a pot and let it dry for a few days in the sun and then take a picture and post it here. I would be very eager to see your red pot....I don't think your red soil is as red as you think it is.
My daughter made some clay from the soil around here. It's pretty red. I'll see if I can find it. We make a lot of bricks from Georgia Red clay. Used for baseball diamonds, too.
 
Sifu,

it is a clay type, just from the batch we had, it is more akin to a ball clay in it's properties.
Sticky, but not truly able to hand build shapes, needs to age and perhaps be exposed to more organic material.
Probably will cast or can be pressed into shape in a mould.

Maybe Al, had it fired to it's maturation point and the iron went from red back to yellow, which how our
sub-stoneware clays will do at 1180 deg.C and then they will proceed to bloat, before melting.

If your wondering, we have quite a few books on Clay and Pottery Clay Science, also did a couple years of
basic Geology.

However the idea behind a forum, is Communication and when one dips into Science, it will get confusing.

I raised the point of a clay because of an experience -

Back in 1985 or so, a local Chinese guy [ Trinidadian, just from China, Chinese parents ] grew about 5 J.B.pines
from seed, as they cannot be imported, supposed to carry diseases that affect citrus.
Anyhow, he is also a wire freak, give him a chance and he would wire you in place. [ age 80 something now ]

Well, he had these attractive pines in gravel and large earthenware pots.

Some where he got some information on Akadama, he is also a Kimura disciple, and took his trees, out of the
gravel and put them in the clay that comes with our decomposing sea bonded clay at Mayo.
For a few years, they grew, he also used some manure, which I gather kept the clay particulated, but eventually
the calcium/magnesium reaction failed [ please correct if I should have said organic reaction ] and one
day he had no J.B,pines.

The soil had returned to clay.

We know from his growing experience, that silica gravel works, and a small % of compost.
And that is why we avoid clay soils or clay loams.

Additionally, our checking of the soil cores of our 30 to 35 year old trees showed no formation of a tap root, as was
read about in Bonsai Today articles, just fine roots running around gravel and red brick. Plus, compost replacing
organic beads [ Humus, last stage of decomposition before becoming Metal Oxides ?

Roots are also unable to crush gravel or red brick, but perlite powders badly.

In a bind we can use a little peat moss, but our soil is very active, and with a little compost, in about 2 months,
it is beginning the organic bead cycle. Same for coco-peat.
We also have tunneling critters, that keep re-opening the soil.
You don't see them on the pure gravel based soils, where the use of inorganic fertiliser is practiced.

Guess this is why Paul [ Soil Scientist ?] left the Internet - probably just got fed up with the soil wars.
Good Day
Anthony

* Please note according to the research of a local Geologist our gravel may be silica bonded together [ is it in situ ? ]
by calcium/magnesium and is porous as well.
Not volcanic.
 
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It's so lame to argue over soil.

Even worse to think someone is arguing.

I'd ask if there is a panty problem......
But I know it can't be that.....cuz Al doesn't use Akadama anymore!

I went and bought 2 bags of soil yesterday.

Oh the boni. (That's multiple bonuses.)

No torn feeders, no mixing, just sift and go! Sift and go!

Sift and go.
Sift and go.

Oh,
Those feeder roots, love it so.
Sift and go, sift and go.

Oh,
Those seeded fruits, love it so,
Sift and go, Sift and go.

Bark on the trunk, not the roots!
Mark by a skunk, not the toots!
Smells a high price of foreign clay.

Sift and go, sniff I may!
Sift and go.........

The cheaper way!

Sorce
 
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