Scots and Mugos Repotting Discussion

[RickMartin]

Actually, I'm more interested to see how a Summer repot works out in San Antonio TX.

We will find out in a month..

Rick

 

[Jester217300]

Just to make it clear, I am in no way going against what Vance has said with regard to repotting mugo pines.

Neither am I. He's made it clear his method works. But I think mine can, too. He uses organic soil, I don't. I don't know how he fertilizes. His garden and my garden could be different enough where the same practices work differently in each, respectively.

I'm not bashing anyone. But most people in the bonsai community repot mugo in spring. Since I've had good results with my repotting methods in spring I just want to try it that way first.

 

[Vance Wood]

Nice piece of info. @Paradox , comparing spring and summer repots, can you say it was done with the same workload? I mean the trees repotted from... soil to...soil, root reduction...

This spring I repotted three nursery mugo pines applying HBR repot with some root reduction. So far they're fine, growing without the sign of weakening. Plus one Watereri scots pine repotted to the first bonsai pot.

I've got one more mugo in nursery soil I'm going to repot in july for the first time. I'm not sure if HBR repot can be done in summer, will see.

Summer repotting works for mugos (proved by many here) and should work for scots pines, I collect Scots pines in summer. But on the repotting topic - I will wait for others experiences, how
much root works can be done...

note: HVM lost his beautiful yamadori mugo pine and he suspects it's first summer repotting. So there can be different approach in case of collected trees vs container grown trees.

I still feel bad about the loss of great collected Mugho. There are several issues going on here that are not listed and without knowin specific details it is impossible to know for sure what exactly happned

 

[Vance Wood]

Neither am I. He's made it clear his method works. But I think mine can, too. He uses organic soil, I don't. I don't know how he fertilizes. His garden and my garden could be different enough where the same practices work differently in each, respectively.

I'm not bashing anyone. But most people in the bonsai community repot mugo in spring. Since I've had good results with my repotting methods in spring I just want to try it that way first.

Not meaning to be argumentitive, but most people who claim to have knowledge of Mugos do not have a Mugo, can't grow them where they live, and have tried and failed. Which begs the question: How many Mugos do you have and how long have you had them? This is an important qestion; if we are equally correct then this needs t be pointed out.

As to the issue of organic soils it is important to define what you mean by organic soil? I use essentially about 25% composted Pine bark mulch does the rest is calcined clay, red lava, and #2 or #3 swimming pool filter sand or sand blasting sand. I could be wrong but that is a pretty inorganic mix.

There is another iconoclastic exercise I engage in: I water a lot, a lot more than the acceptable amount most would recomend for a Pine. Don,t forget, I have several Mugos that I have had for more than twenty years, and a few more than forty years.

 

[dirk hoorelbeke]

This discussion can go on and on. There are different visions and experiences by several people with knowledge on the subject. If we want an overview and generalisable results on this hypothesis : mugo repotting in summer is better than in spring, i think could make a survey which includes several influencing factors to look if the hypothesis is supported by a higher success rate. Prior on doing a survey we must conduct a qualitative research to see what factors we would account to have influence on the success rate. I would like to work this out and i will open a post in a few weeks time (now timing is bad for me).

 

[Vance Wood]

Neither am I. He's made it clear his method works. But I think mine can, too. He uses organic soil, I don't. I don't know how he fertilizes. His garden and my garden could be different enough where the same practices work differently in each, respectively.

I'm not bashing anyone. But most people in the bonsai community repot mugo in spring. Since I've had good results with my repotting methods in spring I just want to try it that way first.

I just have to point this out. Up until a few years ago most people in the bonsai community did not have Mugo Pines. When I first started displaying my trees I was faced with wide eyed amazement to the fact no one here in Michigan was having any success growing them as bonsai here.

 

[Jester217300]

My understanding is that mugo have been collected and cultivated as bonsai for many years in Europe.

 

[Paradox]

My understanding is that mugo have been collected and cultivated as bonsai for many years in Europe.

Yes they have. It is a bit different in that those are mostly 100 year old yamadori. Most mugos you see in the U.S. are landscape nursery trees less than 10 years old. Vance has probably been working them longer in the U.S. than anybody.

 

[Paradox]

A couple of interesting trees you have to work with. Nice trunk on your Scots. Curious what you did to treat your scale problem?

Just to be clear, the scale was on the first mugo posted in the first post, the one that has been repotted in spring.

It was a pretty bad infestation so I took no chances with milder alternatives that I would try first normally. I treated the scale once a week with Sevin for 5 weeks to make sure I got through the whole life cycle of the scale.

 

[RickMartin]

Where you in Michigan up until a couple months ago?

That would be correct..i moved down here March 1

Rick

 

[Jester217300]

Yes they have. It is a bit different in that those are mostly 100 year old yamadori. Most mugos you see in the U.S. are landscape nursery trees less than 10 years old. Vance has probably been working them longer in the U.S. than anybody.

Yes, you're right. But surely once they're established in a pot with bonsai soil a routine repot would be a routine repot, right? At that point it shouldn't matter whether it came from the mountains or a nursery pot.

 

[Vance Wood]

Yes, you're right. But surely once they're established in a pot with bonsai soil a routine repot would be a routine repot, right? At that point it shouldn't matter whether it came from the mountains or a nursery pot.

You seem to be avoiding my original question which boiled down to how many Mugos have you grown and for how long? What you are doing here is equating standard practice with Mugo Pines. This is not uncommon, but; it used to be that no body around here could grow Mugos at all using standard practice.

It got so bad at one point that I was accused of not being able to do anything else, and then dismissed using the argument why would someone want to grow a Mugo anyway? They don't do well in our environment.

There is an amusing problem with that scnerio; Japanese Black Pines do not do well in Michigan weather either, they do not like the cold. Nobody it seems is willing to accept the option that what ever they are doing to grow a Mugo is the wrong thing, and it is technique that is killing the tree no location.

 

[Jester217300]

You seem to be avoiding my original question which boiled down to how many Mugos have you grown and for how long? What you are doing here is equating standard practice with Mugo Pines. This is not uncommon, but; it used to be that no body around here could grow Mugos.

I'm not avoiding it, I already posted it on the first page. 1 mugo for 8 months. I'll repot for the first time spring 2017.

 

[RickMartin]

You seem to be avoiding my original question which boiled down to how many Mugos have you grown and for how long? What you are doing here is equating standard practice with Mugo Pines. This is not uncommon, but; it used to be that no body around here could grow Mugos at all using standard practice.

It got so bad at one point that I was accused of not being able to do anything else, and then dismissed using the argument why would someone want to grow a Mugo anyway? They don't do well in our environment.

There is an amusing problem with that scnerio; Japanese Black Pines do not do well in Michigan weather either, they do not like the cold. Nobody it seems is willing to accept the option that what ever they are doing to grow a Mugo is the wrong thing, and it is technique that is killing the tree no location.

Thats one of the reasons why i brought this one down here..to see if it will thrive using tour technique the other reason was if i left it where it was it would have ended up in the burn pile, so i figured i would give it a chance. I went to a bonsai shop down here and was tell the owner i had a mugo pine. She said kiss that tree goodbye in August, they cant grow down here. If this tree is healthy next spring myself and the tree are going to her shop to prove they can grow down here. Maybe they cant i dont know but im going to try real hard and find out.

Rick

 

[M. Frary]

I don't even have to worry when to repot my mugo pines.
I know a guy,see. When it comes to working on my mugo pines it's a no brainer for me.
I'll be doing rootwork sometime after Father's Day.
Like Vance does.
No questions asked.

 

[RickMartin]

Same here

Rick

 

[Vance Wood]

I'm not avoiding it, I already posted it on the first page. 1 mugo for 8 months. I'll repot for the first time spring 2017.

My apologies, you did say that. The interesting thing that intrigues me is what source are you clinging to in making your assumption to repot when you have decided to repot? I find it curious that there are so many people that have acquired an interest in Mugo Pines to the point of deciding to grow one but seem to want to ignore the reasons for success from the source that stimulated that interest?

I know that one of the people on this thread mentioned losing one after a summer repot but no details were furnished as to what happened during that repot. I suppose if the tree had been repotted in Spring the same result may have been suffered. Without knowing details it is impossible to tell. That's the problem with doing anything on the Web. Instructions can be misunderstood and sometimes people can do things they think don't matter that really do.

 

[Paradox]

My apologies, you did say that. The interesting thing that intrigues me is what source are you clinging to in making your assumption to repot when you have decided to repot? I find it curious that there are so many people that have acquired an interest in Mugo Pines to the point of deciding to grow one but seem to want to ignore the reasons for success from the source that stimulated that interest?

I know that one of the people on this thread mentioned losing one after a summer repot but no details were furnished as to what happened during that repot. I suppose if the tree had been repotted in Spring the same result may have been suffered. Without knowing details it is impossible to tell. That's the problem with doing anything on the Web. Instructions can be misunderstood and sometimes people can do things they think don't matter that really do.

So Vance, what are your thoughts on the mugo I repotted in the spring, as a newbie to bonsai, where I totally butalized the roots. I must have taken 60 % off easily, probably more.
I seriously didnt know any better at the time and only realized afterwards that Id probably taken too many roots. I did reduce some of the foliage at the same time though.
The tree amazingly survived. Did I just get lucky? Either that or the tree has an amazing will to live?

 

[Potawatomi13]

There is an amusing problem with that scnerio; Japanese Black Pines do not do well in Michigan weather either, they do not like the cold. Nobody it seems is willing to accept the option that what ever they are doing to grow a Mugo is the wrong thing, and it is technique that is killing the tree no location.

So if I understand you properly folks there insist on growing Jap Black pine but dismiss Mugo? Funny and Not funny. Maybe like Kimura eventually the blind will see the virtue of what you do.

 

[Potawatomi13]

So Vance, what are your thoughts on the mugo I repotted in the spring, as a newbie to bonsai, where I totally butalized the roots. I must have taken 60 % off easily, probably more.
I seriously didnt know any better at the time and only realized afterwards that Id probably taken too many roots. I did reduce some of the foliage at the same time though.
The tree amazingly survived. Did I just get lucky? Either that or the tree has an amazing will to live?

Seems your screen name fits this incident very well.