New term for American bonsai

[Saddler]

You don’t read so good do you. You are just like many here and just skim posts and don’t read the words. That’s ok, put me on Ignore, that’s what I do. There are many here that bitch about me, yet bitch daily. Use the ignore function and “your” problem goes away. But... if you are like many here, you just want to bitch about something and I am convenient because I have something you want. A following. I find that most don’t want to put me on ignore cause you don’t want to miss anything I might have to say, and you get some kind of satisfaction out of wagging the tail of the big dog.

I get it. Like a big dog, you just nip at my heels.

Bahahaha, if nothing else, you amuse me. As for my reading, is it my comprehension level or your ability to write clearly? If you write clear and concisely, there is rarely a misunderstanding. The one common denominator with the people you say “don’t read so good” is you.

As for trees, if I ever think my trees are going to be at the same level as most of your trees (that you posted in this thread) when I have been doing this as long as you, I will get out of the hobby right then and there because I will have failed myself. I know you consider all my trees crap, and that is fine, because I only have what, twenty more years to improve them? There is a lot of “crap” trees on here that I learn from as much or more then you teach.

I won’t put you on ignore because I do find you amusing.

 

[Saddler]

Now that I have been thoroughly distracted and back on the topic of a name for western bonsai, my take is that we don’t need a separate word, but rather subclasses of broad styles of bonsai. I think we are already going in this direction when we use the terms 'naturalistic', 'malsai', 'japanese'. I am sure there are more we use already as well. I would think penjing would fall into a subclass as well.

My reasoning is the internet has made the world a whole lot smaller and bonsai is known as bonsai on every continent. We don’t need to have these subclasses AND regional names. It would get way messier then needed I would think.

 

[Saddler]

You have me laughing at you now.

Bonsai start by transfer medicinal plants in Asia. This is the creation of Bonsai. Read some story you like, but this is the reality. Hai

Can you please point me to any literature that backs up your claim?

 

[Solaris]

Maybe the difference is that one is a good bonsai and the other is a bad bonsai. But that is according to Japanese rules. A kid or a person with a different background may find different. Anyways, my point was more about the how we display bonsai and how this may mark a difference between western and eastern bonsai?

A raw slab of marble isn't a sculpture, regardless of how fancy a dais you put it on.

 

[Bananaman]

Bahahaha, if nothing else, you amuse me. As for my reading, is it my comprehension level or your ability to write clearly? If you write clear and concisely, there is rarely a misunderstanding. The one common denominator with the people you say “don’t read so good” is you.

As for trees, if I ever think my trees are going to be at the same level as most of your trees (that you posted in this thread) when I have been doing this as long as you, I will get out of the hobby right then and there because I will have failed myself. I know you consider all my trees crap, and that is fine, because I only have what, twenty more years to improve them? There is a lot of “crap” trees on here that I learn from as much or more then you teach.

I won’t put you on ignore because I do find you amusing.

If you had been paying attention you would know that some of my best trees were built in just a few years. I only have a couple that are more than twenty years old, and very few are even ten years old. Some of the best were made in and around 2012. You should see what I am working on for the next group to be refined.

One of my favorite trees I am working on is my fused trident. I think this is going to be a great tree just for the fact that you rarely see tridents with trunks like this. They are always grown like a pine and while stylish looking, look nothing like a maple tree. This tree began my method of planting on the bottom of the pot without soil that I feel is very innovative but since I don’t have a name from Japan does not get noticed. But if you employ the method the rewards are great. Two more years will do this tree real justice.

 

[Bananaman]

I won’t put you on ignore because I do find you amusing.

You won't put me on ignore because you don't want to miss a single post I have to say. Just admit it, there's no bonsai police....

 

[Bananaman]

"As for trees, if I ever think my trees are going to be at the same level as most of your trees (that you posted in this thread) when I have been doing this as long as you, I will get out of the hobby right then and there because I will have failed myself. "

"because I only have what, twenty more years to improve them? There is a lot of “crap” trees on here that I learn from as much or more then you teach. "

If you think you need twenty years to make a great tree, you might as well throw in the towel now. If you can't make a great tree in five years you have failed. I can make a pretty damned good tree with a gallon procumbens in about a hour and 3.00 dollars worth of wire.

I don't understand why you keep argueing with me. It is obvious you are frustrated with your own bonsai prowess and wish to take it out on me. Concentrate on building your own skills and leave me the hell alone. The like system here is much like the split politically we have today. I can see the likes and when you land some big blow and tell me how shitty I am, the same people like your posts over and over. Is that why you do it? Rallying your base? The Al haters? You don't gain a damn thing... I still post here, you still hate it...your trees suck...and mine continue to improve. Why not just accept that and move on...I can have a pissing match for as long as you want and the end game is always the same.

This is a bonsai forum....step up and post a tree....I dare you

 

[Saddler]

You won't put me on ignore because you don't want to miss a single post I have to say. Just admit it, there's no bonsai police....

I guess that is true in some respects, same as I don’t want to miss anyone else’s posts. Your posts like everyone else's mean only as much to me as I have time to spare to read them.

 

[Johnathan]

If you had been paying attention you would know that some of my best trees were built in just a few years. I only have a couple that are more than twenty years old, and very few are even ten years old. Some of the best were made in and around 2012. You should see what I am working on for the next group to be refined.

One of my favorite trees I am working on is my fused trident. I think this is going to be a great tree just for the fact that you rarely see tridents with trunks like this. They are always grown like a pine and while stylish looking, look nothing like a maple tree. This tree began my method of planting on the bottom of the pot without soil that I feel is very innovative but since I don’t have a name from Japan does not get noticed. But if you employ the method the rewards are great. Two more years will do this tree real justice.
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I only checked this thread cause I saw Bananaman was the last post on it, and I find you pretty entertaining lol but look at this gem here!

Time out, a break from bickering for a second..... To teach please.

#1, did you cut the trunks or just allow them to fuse without slicing?

#2, Planting on the bottom? I'm interested. This provides a result similar to planting on wood method without all the hassle of wood and screws?

 

[Saddler]

If you think you need twenty years to make a great tree, you might as well throw in the towel now. If you can't make a great tree in five years you have failed. I can make a pretty damned good tree with a gallon procumbens in about a hour and 3.00 dollars worth of wire.

I don't understand why you keep argueing with me. It is obvious you are frustrated with your own bonsai prowess and wish to take it out on me. Concentrate on building your own skills and leave me the hell alone. The like system here is much like the split politically we have today. I can see the likes and when you land some big blow and tell me how shitty I am, the same people like your posts over and over. Is that why you do it? Rallying your base? The Al haters? You don't gain a damn thing... I still post here, you still hate it...your trees suck...and mine continue to improve. Why not just accept that and move on...I can have a pissing match for as long as you want and the end game is always the same.

This is a bonsai forum....step up and post a tree....I dare you

I can’t help but feel you and I have very different ideas of what we consider great. A great tree stirs up emotion. Good trees look pretty. Mach5 has some great trees as do a few others and I know they took more then five years because I have seen the progression. You definitely are able to make good trees and I do consider it impressive that you can do it five years or even less. I don’t think I have seen a tree of yours that I would consider great though. It’s really not hard to say you make great pasta when you find a good can of sauce and some decent noodles, heat them up and put it all together and serve it. It will never come close to what someone can make mixing eggs, flour and semolina for the pasta and making a sauce from raw ingredients. Many will be happy with the quick route. I wish I could be, I would have saved myself tens of thousands of dollars and thousands of hours of time. As long as I make steady progress towards my goal I am satisfied.

I am trying not to argue with you, but have a discussion. You are not making it easy though. In your defence, you are staying true to form so I knew what I was getting into before I typed my first word.

Please show me where I have said how shitty you are? At worst I have stated my opinion. You on the other hand I feel have come across like a 12 year old that thinks he knows everything, even when I have agreed with you.

I’m ok with you thinking my trees are shitty. I know which are and which ones are not. The ones that are not are not great or even good, currently. They are right where they need to be for my long term plan.

Here is one tree that will good (great by your definition) in five years. https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/shohin-maple-trunk.34948/

 

[Shima]

Just call it bonsai and get on with it already. And hang up this thread. It bores me $hitless. Hai

 

[BunjaeKorea]

Ladies, ladies, ladies....... you are turning our beloved BonsaiNut forum into a horticultural version of Twitter ........

Don't get me wrong..... watching you fossils argue is quite entertaining but still......

 

[my nellie]

@Bananaman previously used the username @Smoke (Al Keppler), which goes back to 2006.... ...
After many people called him out for this, he recently created the following thread: ... ...
He has, as an aside, created an astonishing number of self-centered threads that are completely unrelated to bonsai:... ...
........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
At least he knows himself:

Derek, you are absolutely wrong!
Moreover and more important, you are disrespecting. But this is so, due to your age I would like to believe (I'm giving you an escape exit...)
You have joined very recently (I am new also, since 2010) and if I may offer a suggestion, it would be "you'd better search more and put some effort into comprehending the context"
I am addressing you with the most friendly sentiments.

 

[Mark]

Did I miss the pic? Sounds great but I am more of a visual guy.

Bill Valavanis shared photos of the award winning Bonsai as did Bonsai Bark and Bonsai Empire. For great photos the 6th US National Bonsai Exhibition Album is available to reserve prepublication with release next spring.

 

[rockm]

A raw slab of marble isn't a sculpture, regardless of how fancy a dais you put it on.

Huh? That's pretty silly and a false equivalency to what's going on...

 

[rockm]

Maybe the difference is that one is a good bonsai and the other is a bad bonsai. But that is according to Japanese rules. A kid or a person with a different background may find different. Anyways, my point was more about the how we display bonsai and how this may mark a difference between western and eastern bonsai?

Another question: how does American bonsai differ from European bonsai? Should it be an American thing? Or more of westerner way?

It doesn't take a genius (even I can see it for instance) that this is a sliding scale. There are elements in displays that can "signal" specific American/Canadian/Euro whatever-centric bonsai. The use of specific species and accompanying imagery and planting--a Texas live oak with a prickly pear cactus accent (and yes, there are prickly pear cactus that can be roughly in scale with a large bonsai) and a (possibly a scroll) painting of a windmill--not the Dutch kind, the Texas kind would definitely NOT be considered Japanese. the use of specific okimono (bronzes) of North American (African, European, etc.) can also be a reference to the tree's (and bonsaiist's) native home. All this is in addition to the native tree species' growth habits and forms, which can vary tremendously from traditional Asian species. Bald cypress springs to mind as one species whose mature form has no substantial parallel to more traditional Asian species. All these ingredients can be mixed in various ways to come up with a country specific bonsai display. In the end, however, trees are trees and people are people. A bonsai has to relate to humans in some way as bonsai isn't about trees really. It's about communicating with people. Bonsai's ability to reach across cultures is self-evident. Japanese trees and displays (which contain extremely culture-specific images and other content) have appealed to westerners for going on 150 years now...

 

[BunjaeKorea]

This is like watching 3 blind guys arguing their opinions about why a piece of white paper is actually black, charcoal or sable.

 

[Bananaman]

This is like watching 3 blind guys arguing their opinions about why a piece of white paper is actually black, charcoal or sable.

Thanks for making it four?????

 

[rockm]

This is like watching 3 blind guys arguing their opinions about why a piece of white paper is actually black, charcoal or sable.

As one of the blind guys, I wonder if my suggestion that you ignore this thread could be heard over the din of the smug, superior whining.

 

[Gustavo Martins]

This is like watching 3 blind guys arguing their opinions about why a piece of white paper is actually black, charcoal or sable.

I don’t understand this comment. This is relevant for the thread topic unlike other discussions here. Yes, we have different opinions. So what? So do you. I think you just lost a great chance to shut up, that’s what I think.