Fir for Bonsai

[penumbra]

Good day all. I have become enamored with the plethora of true Fir (Abies) to be found from from around the globe and why the seem to be largely excluded from the bonsai world. Is there a reason for this? They seem to be ideal candidates for bonsai. Your response is appreciated.

 

[Dav4]

My best guess would be that firs are alpine species, and alpine species are just more difficult to maintain in a pot in less then ideal environmental conditions. I know there are wonderful specimen subalpine firs, A. lasiocarpa, out on the west coast, but the vast majority of them need to stay within a relatively close proximity to where they were collected, or they tend to decline.

 

[Vance Wood]

You might try Korean Fir. They back bud like crazy and seem to grow well here, Detroit Michigan area.

 

[penumbra]

You might try Korean Fir. They back bud like crazy and seem to grow well here, Detroit Michigan area.

That in fact is one I am trying this spring. I have a few small 3 year old plants and seeds of this and other fir tress.
Thanks

 

[Underdog]

I am trying Canaan Fir this year. It's a burlaped wrapped heavy clay rootball at this point. Only setting in the pot. It was our Christmas tree this year and hopfully for many years to come.
https://ento.psu.edu/extension/chri...es-canaan-fir-abies-balsamea-var-phanerolepis

 

[Cosmos]

My best guess would be that firs are alpine species, and alpine species are just more difficult to maintain in a pot in less then ideal environmental conditions. I know there are wonderful specimen subalpine firs, A. lasiocarpa, out on the west coast, but the vast majority of them need to stay within a relatively close proximity to where they were collected, or they tend to decline.

Even worse than an alpine species, the only fir we have here in the East is balsam fir, which is a pure understory tree, with long, spindly shade-adapted branches, and generally very uninteresting bark. A few have interesting shapes, but there’s just nothing of substance most of the time.

 

[Vance Wood]

Even worse than an alpine species, the only fir we have here in the East is balsam fir, which is a pure understory tree, with long, spindly shade-adapted branches, and generally very uninteresting bark. A few have interesting shapes, but there’s just nothing of substance most of the time.

You ought to take a trip on the Cog Railroad up the White Mountain in Vermont. There are some Balsam Firs growing on that rock that will make you drool.

 

[penumbra]

Even worse than an alpine species, the only fir we have here in the East is balsam fir, which is a pure understory tree, with long, spindly shade-adapted branches, and generally very uninteresting bark. A few have interesting shapes, but there’s just nothing of substance most of the time.

I wasn't even considering Balsam Fir at this time. I am however intrigued with Spanish, Himalayan, Corkbark, Korean and Japanese Firs. I have all of these seeds which I will soak and begin stratification this weekend.
It seems that not many people use Firs and I still have not received a good answer as to why this is so. I will continue with my project and at the very worst I will have a lot of trees to plant on my property.
Thank you to all who chimed in.

 

[PiñonJ]

I have an Abies lasioarpa and an Abies concolor (White Fir). The first photo shows both species. Unfortunately, that beautiful White Fir behind the Subalpine Fir died after a year in collection, despite doing well the first year. You can see two of the branches dying. I have another, very young White Fir that is almost three years in collection and going strong. The Subalpine Fir is doing great and will receive its first styling this spring. Ryan Neil has a number of fir, mostly Subalpine.

 

[leatherback]

fir typically are adjusted to getting loads of snow on their branches in winter. So they are pushed down. Come spring, snowmelts and the branches come up. As a result, they set their branches very poorly. This is a bit of a downside for bonsai. It takes several rewiring for them to more or less stay in place.

 

[penumbra]

fir typically are adjusted to getting loads of snow on their branches in winter. So they are pushed down. Come spring, snowmelts and the branches come up. As a result, they set their branches very poorly. This is a bit of a downside for bonsai. It takes several rewiring for them to more or less stay in place.

Thank you, that is logical and good to know. I will consider some of my other branch bending techniques.

 

[PiñonJ]

Leave the wire to bite in a little and they’ll set better.

 

[GGB]

Saw some native balsam fir with stupid tiny needles at the national show, in the sale area. I'm a little southern for abies but they seemed like great trees to work with. I like diving deep into a genus, that's what lead me to this hobby. I was just obsessed with southern pine trees

 

[barguy8194]

You ought to take a trip on the Cog Railroad up the White Mountain in Vermont. There are some Balsam Firs growing on that rock that will make you drool.

The White Mountains are in New Hampshire, and the Cog is on Mount Washington, which is one of the mountains in the White Mountains Range ? I apologize, I hate to be pedantic, but that’s my home territory lol. And yes... check out the alpine zones in the White Mountains, the Green Mountains in Vermont, the Katahdin/Baxter Woods areas in Maine, or the High Peaks of the Adirondacks in New York... you’ll find lots balsam fir and lots of black spruce that are beautifully sculpted by the wind and ice.

 

[Vance Wood]

The White Mountains are in New Hampshire, and the Cog is on Mount Washington, which is one of the mountains in the White Mountains Range ? I apologize, I hate to be pedantic, but that’s my home territory lol. And yes... check out the alpine zones in the White Mountains, the Green Mountains in Vermont, the Katahdin/Baxter Woods areas in Maine, or the High Peaks of the Adirondacks in New York... you’ll find lots balsam fir and lots of black spruce that are beautifully sculpted by the wind and ice.

It's nice to be upbraided by the likes of you, it's been a long time since I have had this happen. Sometimes when you try to pull something off the top of your memory you make mistakes.

 

[barguy8194]

It's nice to be upbraided by the likes of you, it's been a long time since I have had this happen.

@Vance Wood like I said, I apologize for being pedantic, didn’t mean to be rude. But it’s my home, and New Hampshirites and Vermonters have a rivalry akin to the Red Sox and Yankees, so... it’s personal ?

 

[River's Edge]

I wasn't even considering Balsam Fir at this time. I am however intrigued with Spanish, Himalayan, Corkbark, Korean and Japanese Firs. I have all of these seeds which I will soak and begin stratification this weekend.
It seems that not many people use Firs and I still have not received a good answer as to why this is so. I will continue with my project and at the very worst I will have a lot of trees to plant on my property.
Thank you to all who chimed in.

Fir typically are under appreciated and do also have some extra care required. Longer dormancy than some species so that restricts climate zones. Tendency to fungal issues requiring more vigilance. The springy branch habit has already been mentioned.
They have some real positives as well. Respond well to collection, backbud easily. I prefer the sub-alpine fir. Here is a picture of one collected June 26th, 2017 that has recovered very nicely and i will be repotting and styling initially in a month or two. The reason for the late spring collection was waiting for the snow to melt in the higher elevations. I had to shovel snow away from the site to begin digging. The second tree was collected in fall 2017 and will wait another season before styling.

 

[Vance Wood]

They are a high mountain tree and like the conditions of morning mists and cool temperatures during the day. They are notoriously unavailable in the nursery trade so unless you collect or acquire stock from those who do, you are not likely to get them. I had a really nice Sub-Alpine Fir before I was inducted into the army and would jump on having one again. I had collected a Whiter Fir during the same time. All of those trees are now lost.

 

[CaptainFuzzy]

Fir typically are under appreciated and do also have some extra care required. Longer dormancy than some species so that restricts climate zones. Tendency to fungal issues requiring more vigilance. The springy branch habit has already been mentioned.
They have some real positives as well. Respond well to collection, backbud easily. I prefer the sub-alpine fir. Here is a picture of one collected June 26th, 2017 that has recovered very nicely and i will be repotting and styling initially in a month or two. The reason for the late spring collection was waiting for the snow to melt in the higher elevations. I had to shovel snow away from the site to begin digging. The second tree was collected in fall 2017 and will wait another season before styling.

I’d love to know if these are still around. Did you collect Neil’s Subalpine No. 1?

 

[River's Edge]

I’d love to know if these are still around. Did you collect Neil’s Subalpine No. 1?

Yes I still have both sub alpine fir. No, not my tree.