I had it guy wired down the the rim of the pot spreading it out all spring into summer, One of the pics show the red wire on the rim. Got a lot of new growth in close after that too.
Thanks for your input.
Golden Mop chamaecyparis False Cypress
- Thread starter Underdog
- Start date
Thanks for your input.
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
- Messages
- 11,341
- Reaction score
- 23,292
- USDA Zone
- 5b
I like it, enough that I want to offer a couple thoughts. I am not trying to dictate what to do, though when I read what I wrote, it could be read that way, which is not my intent. Just offering what I would do if it were mine.
I have killed a number of Hinoki by over working them, actually quite a number. Have some now in year 5 or so, now that I have learned to slow my roll. My mantra, to myself is "only one insult per year", but in truth, if you are sensitive to the health of the tree, you can work Hinoki several times a year. Actually you will need at least 2 sessions of pruning per year to keep growth under control. But you need to keep sensitive to the health of the tree. They need time to grow to stay healthy.
I would not repot more than once every two or three years. It takes a year or more for vegetative growth to pick back up after repotting. Keep it in the pot it is in at least one more year. Keep your nebari buried. You have a one sided surface root system, get those roots at least a quarter inch, half inch is better, buried under soil. You need surface roots on all sides to give image of stability. Hinoki do root even from older wood, but it takes time, and they need soil covering the area you want roots to form.
At first look those two thick roots look awkward. But they are on the right side of the trunk if you want to lean the trunk to the opposite side of those roots. So I'd keep them for the time being. Just bury them. Later, you will be glad you did. Don't expose the nebari until you are close to final design, only when moved to final bonsai pot do you expose the nebari. (there are exceptions, but not for this tree)
Okay, I see several options. For instant bonsai, forget what I said about waiting, move it to a smaller pot, the trunk will stop gaining girth, and style it to the ''best'' bonsai you can. It will always be a nice tree, several steps better than a mallsai, but I think you would miss out on the potential here. Pleasant, instant gratification, but never become a great tree.
I think to make a great shohin tree, I would let it grow this year, don't repot. Identify the sprouts that are the closest to the trunk. A couple times a year, prune these close to the trunk, you don't want them to get long. You want to keep them with green as close to trunk as possible. These will be your branches for the ''final'' design. Or rather they will be the branches for the restyling after the branches for your initial design have foliage too far from the trunk. The result is you will have a tree within a tree for a while.
Identify the distance between the roots and the first branch. This distance is important to use as a measure to design your tree. All branches you keep should either branch, or have sharp bends indicating visually that they formerly branched, at a distance preferably less than 2/3 rds this distance. Long straight branches, longer than that root to first branch distance, will distract from creating a convincing tree image.
This means your branches will fall into 3 groups, close in foliage for distant future use, branches with branching in the right zone for use in current design, and the last is branches too long and too straight to use in any design. You can try wiring sharp bends into overly long branches, if they are thin enough, this could work. The rest should or could be used as sacrifice or escape branches to thicken your trunk. As a shohin or next size up tree you need a trunk over one inch, preferably over two inches in diameter. Once in a small pot, the trunk won't thicken appreciably in your lifetime. So use the sacrifice branches to thicken your trunk now, otherwise, years down the road, when you want to improve your tree, you will wish you had used escape or sacrifice branches. For your own use, use colored tape, wire or some method to mark each branch as to which group it is in, so later you don't forget the ''plan''. I know I've gotten confused, cut off intended sacrifices, before they were big enough, etc.
Wire and or prune sacrifices so they don't shade the keepers. If they get long enough, wire the ends up, so they will grow even faster.
Basically the shape the tree is now is a good start. You have an interesting trunk. Roots will need work, but this can come later. You want the tree to get a vigorous head of steam going growth wise. Golden Hinoki do grow faster than some of the nana types, so this grow out sacrifices to thicken the trunk phase might only be 5 years or so, instead of the decades some of the slowest of the hinoki cultivars require.
So whether you follow my advice or not, is up to you, it is a nice tree, and if you go the short route, it may make a pretty nice shohin, just by moving it to a small pot right away, nothing wrong with that. But I think it is a fascinating project to take the slower route I suggested. Myself, I enjoy the process much more than having ''finished'' trees, having a ''finished'' tree around the house is not important to me, but I do like the idea of having a ''knock your socks off'' good tree when I do finally show a tree. So I would go the slow route.
I have killed a number of Hinoki by over working them, actually quite a number. Have some now in year 5 or so, now that I have learned to slow my roll. My mantra, to myself is "only one insult per year", but in truth, if you are sensitive to the health of the tree, you can work Hinoki several times a year. Actually you will need at least 2 sessions of pruning per year to keep growth under control. But you need to keep sensitive to the health of the tree. They need time to grow to stay healthy.
I would not repot more than once every two or three years. It takes a year or more for vegetative growth to pick back up after repotting. Keep it in the pot it is in at least one more year. Keep your nebari buried. You have a one sided surface root system, get those roots at least a quarter inch, half inch is better, buried under soil. You need surface roots on all sides to give image of stability. Hinoki do root even from older wood, but it takes time, and they need soil covering the area you want roots to form.
At first look those two thick roots look awkward. But they are on the right side of the trunk if you want to lean the trunk to the opposite side of those roots. So I'd keep them for the time being. Just bury them. Later, you will be glad you did. Don't expose the nebari until you are close to final design, only when moved to final bonsai pot do you expose the nebari. (there are exceptions, but not for this tree)
Okay, I see several options. For instant bonsai, forget what I said about waiting, move it to a smaller pot, the trunk will stop gaining girth, and style it to the ''best'' bonsai you can. It will always be a nice tree, several steps better than a mallsai, but I think you would miss out on the potential here. Pleasant, instant gratification, but never become a great tree.
I think to make a great shohin tree, I would let it grow this year, don't repot. Identify the sprouts that are the closest to the trunk. A couple times a year, prune these close to the trunk, you don't want them to get long. You want to keep them with green as close to trunk as possible. These will be your branches for the ''final'' design. Or rather they will be the branches for the restyling after the branches for your initial design have foliage too far from the trunk. The result is you will have a tree within a tree for a while.
Identify the distance between the roots and the first branch. This distance is important to use as a measure to design your tree. All branches you keep should either branch, or have sharp bends indicating visually that they formerly branched, at a distance preferably less than 2/3 rds this distance. Long straight branches, longer than that root to first branch distance, will distract from creating a convincing tree image.
This means your branches will fall into 3 groups, close in foliage for distant future use, branches with branching in the right zone for use in current design, and the last is branches too long and too straight to use in any design. You can try wiring sharp bends into overly long branches, if they are thin enough, this could work. The rest should or could be used as sacrifice or escape branches to thicken your trunk. As a shohin or next size up tree you need a trunk over one inch, preferably over two inches in diameter. Once in a small pot, the trunk won't thicken appreciably in your lifetime. So use the sacrifice branches to thicken your trunk now, otherwise, years down the road, when you want to improve your tree, you will wish you had used escape or sacrifice branches. For your own use, use colored tape, wire or some method to mark each branch as to which group it is in, so later you don't forget the ''plan''. I know I've gotten confused, cut off intended sacrifices, before they were big enough, etc.
Wire and or prune sacrifices so they don't shade the keepers. If they get long enough, wire the ends up, so they will grow even faster.
Basically the shape the tree is now is a good start. You have an interesting trunk. Roots will need work, but this can come later. You want the tree to get a vigorous head of steam going growth wise. Golden Hinoki do grow faster than some of the nana types, so this grow out sacrifices to thicken the trunk phase might only be 5 years or so, instead of the decades some of the slowest of the hinoki cultivars require.
So whether you follow my advice or not, is up to you, it is a nice tree, and if you go the short route, it may make a pretty nice shohin, just by moving it to a small pot right away, nothing wrong with that. But I think it is a fascinating project to take the slower route I suggested. Myself, I enjoy the process much more than having ''finished'' trees, having a ''finished'' tree around the house is not important to me, but I do like the idea of having a ''knock your socks off'' good tree when I do finally show a tree. So I would go the slow route.
As always Leo, your replies are excellent, well thought out and full of solid advice. I always appreciate it. I often read them several times.
I don't have many I can really call Bonsai so part of me really wants to get this in a pot. The basket it's in with a cheep plastic liner I poked holes in won't likely survive another season. I could try.
How about a compromise dropping it in a similar sized pot with better drainage as this holds a bit of water. However it didn't seem to mind... then letting it grow out a bit as you describe. Skipping my desire to clean up the roots for another year. I could let it grow out a bit this year for thickening. I do want to keep as Shohin.
Maybe this year I'll score more Morels than last as I still want to get you some
Thanks again.
I don't have many I can really call Bonsai so part of me really wants to get this in a pot. The basket it's in with a cheep plastic liner I poked holes in won't likely survive another season. I could try.
How about a compromise dropping it in a similar sized pot with better drainage as this holds a bit of water. However it didn't seem to mind... then letting it grow out a bit as you describe. Skipping my desire to clean up the roots for another year. I could let it grow out a bit this year for thickening. I do want to keep as Shohin.
Maybe this year I'll score more Morels than last as I still want to get you some
Thanks again.Long overdue for an update. The impatient side of me had to pot it up last year. It's been growing well and just got it's second haircut of the year. Started looking like a scrub again. Same moss from the nursery can had taken over so I cleaned it out and added some soil around the trunk. I like it but I am easily impressed.
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
- Messages
- 11,341
- Reaction score
- 23,292
- USDA Zone
- 5b
Nice it is really coming along.
NoTopSkies
Yamadori
The eighteen degree early frost got to mine. ?? Leave it in the garage? Leave it buried bout protected from wind? Outside at 40* and back in the garage at night (as I’ve been doing the Bonsai dance with this little lumber store tree)?? he thick trunk on yours is very interesting.
AlainK
Imperial Masterpiece
No top form...
Mine laughs at 18 degrees. Very cold tolerant but, your's could be a different variety. I have to guess there is more to the story?
Repot this year? After Aug? Too wet? as they are pretty drought tolerant. I'm no expert but suggest if you did repot late to protect the roots from freezing. Maybe garage. And also if real late repot don't be shuffling it around too much.
What's that soil/substrate?
My Hinoki Cypress looked like that for a couple years. A calamity of errors probably caused it but, it was sickly when received too. You might get something from that thread here.
Underdogs Hinoki Challenger
Three years into this hobby and this is my nemesis tree. I feel it's turning the corner but I'm not driving... Chamaecyparis obtusa 'Nana Gracilis'
Start a new thread on your tree with pics and your likely to get better advice than mine.
NoTopSkies
Yamadori
Thanks! I will give this a read.Mine laughs at 18 degrees. Very cold tolerant but, your's could be a different variety. I have to guess there is more to the story?
Repot this year? After Aug? Too wet? as they are pretty drought tolerant. I'm no expert but suggest if you did repot late to protect the roots from freezing. Maybe garage. And also if real late repot don't be shuffling it around too much.
What's that soil/substrate?
My Hinoki Cypress looked like that for a couple years. A calamity of errors probably caused it but, it was sickly when received too. You might get something from that thread here.
Underdogs Hinoki Challenger
Three years into this hobby and this is my nemesis tree. I feel it's turning the corner but I'm not driving... Chamaecyparis obtusa 'Nana Gracilis'www.bonsainut.com
Start a new thread on your tree with pics and your likely to get better advice than mine.
NoTopSkies
Yamadori
Was repotted about 01 July, 2019. Only trimmed once. Light copper wire on a few branches that were so flimsy as an experiment. Thanks. I forget how so many different things can combine to have a big impact.Mine laughs at 18 degrees. Very cold tolerant but, your's could be a different variety. I have to guess there is more to the story?
Repot this year? After Aug? Too wet? as they are pretty drought tolerant. I'm no expert but suggest if you did repot late to protect the roots from freezing. Maybe garage. And also if real late repot don't be shuffling it around too much.
What's that soil/substrate?
My Hinoki Cypress looked like that for a couple years. A calamity of errors probably caused it but, it was sickly when received too. You might get something from that thread here.
Underdogs Hinoki Challenger
Three years into this hobby and this is my nemesis tree. I feel it's turning the corner but I'm not driving... Chamaecyparis obtusa 'Nana Gracilis'
Start a new thread on your tree with pics and your likely to get better advice than mine.
NoTopSkies
Yamadori
Gorgeous tree
The drainage screen was plugged with red dust from the lava. Caused a bit of root rot in the core. Reminds me to rinse my soil components well before using. I sometimes do but, not always. I will from now on.
I was able to lower it into the pot deeper to hide some of the ugly roots.
Lava, pumas and bark fines on the larger size. Pinched it back some and added more wire.
Topped it off with some smaller lava and pumas, then put some bits of the moss around the edges. This kind grows fast and thick. Also thrives in full sun.
I was able to lower it into the pot deeper to hide some of the ugly roots.
Lava, pumas and bark fines on the larger size. Pinched it back some and added more wire.
Topped it off with some smaller lava and pumas, then put some bits of the moss around the edges. This kind grows fast and thick. Also thrives in full sun.
Last edited:
NoTopSkies
Yamadori
???? Alain K, please explain?No top form...
AlainK
Imperial Masterpiece
A lot of the foliage seems to be dead :
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Perhaps your soil mix is part of the problem. Chamys like a lot of water but do not like being waterlogged. What is your soil mix like giving specifics would be helpful. I suspect this to be part of the problem.
NoTopSkies
Yamadori
Ah. The sudden 18* night got it.A lot of the foliage seems to be dead :
NoTopSkies
Yamadori
It was packaged soil mix leftover from a different tree. I put the moss from my yard on top. The pot drains fast. It seemed to thrive all summer and fall.
NoTopSkies
Yamadori
Thanks for the reply. It looks worse now. I have been giving it lots of sun when possible and watching the water. It is possible I still may be watering it too much.
Similar threads
