American-made ceramics forms

takes me 5-6 time longer to make one slab pot and the people on the wheel have made 5-6 mug/bowls
Should have responded to this in the previous post. There is no question about it. You are absolutely right. But don't downplay the skill it takes to using a wheel efficiently and well. For most potters it takes many years and many mistakes to produce really good ware. I have been using a wheel for about 10 years now and I am nowhere near where I would like to be. It does not come easily to me. Your results may vary.
 
I don't know what makes a "good" pot, so I'll be listening here. You can begin with exploring "patina", which I think is what I call "dirty" and wash off a each repot. I want my pots to look as good as new. Does a dirty pot insinuate that the tree in it is older that you may have thought if it was in a nice, clean pot?
 
It is a tool. One I don’t know how to use and I figure, focus one one technique until I’m happy with the results before moving on.
No problem with your method. But it is not what works for me. I need to switch back and forth. It makes it more interesting.
I know that they compliment each other with regard to the basic nature of clay.
 
I think for slab built pots I look at the seams and how well they are finished. You can’t hide them under glazes.
 
You have no argument from me. I have seen a lot of crap on the market that I would never consider. I have also made pots I would never considering offering. I have seen Yixing potters from China spend 6 hours to make a single teapot that sold for $10,000. I can appreciate and understand extreme quality. But your adherence to this topic is very telling. It is appropriate for pots used for show or for those who can afford them, or more importantly, recognize the extreme quality. But there is, as in all things, a variance of opinions of what is acceptable to an individual. I think this thread is excellent and have enjoyed all the comments. but,
in the end it is a buyers market.
A thread on what makes a good bonsai pot is an excellent idea and because this subject is important to me, I welcome it. But it is a subject that is and always will be subjective. When you ask, what is a good bonsai pot .......good for what? A hideous pot can be a great pot for developing a bonsai but terrible for showing one. Of coarse the reverse is also true. As to "mallsai potters churning out wares that some folks are confusing as good pots", where is the confusion? If it suites you, it suites you. If it doesn't, it doesn't. If it offends, it offends. But in the end, it is a buyer's market.
I think you make a good distinction here that is worth keeping in mind. I suppose for myself, when I talk about high quality bonsai pots, I'm referring to show quality pots. It's true that most bonsai pots offered by clay hobbyists are just fine as training pots, or step up pots from nursery cans. There's nothing wrong with using less refined pots for these purposes.

The truth is though that most, if not all, pot makers aspire to make really good bonsai pots. I've never heard a potter say they're fine with making mediocre pots suitable for backyard bonsai only. I think it's fair to generalize that most potters would love to see their pots used in shows - especially at the national level. The only way to make it into the shows is to produce superior quality. I know I'm oversimplifying things, but it's just the way I see it.
 
The pots that I'm drawn to, tend to be more traditional. I like straight lines that are precise and curves that are consistent. As a rule, Japanese potters seem to excel at this, when that is their aim at least. As much as I'd like to invest in the future of bonsai in *THIS* country, many of the ceramicists I see in the US seem to focus on glazes and decoration and freedom, over forms and lines and crisp shapes. (There is also place for irregularity to complement similar qualities in trees, but its equally valid to accentuate quiet and understated.)

Which potters have you found to excel at producing forms similar to what the Japanese produce?
I make pots for bonsai and I tend to stick to more traditional forms with very clean lines. I've never really gotten into the asymmetrical, distressed look.
 
I make pots for bonsai and I tend to stick to more traditional forms with very clean lines. I've never really gotten into the asymmetrical, distressed look.
Where can folks find your wares?

(Any kin to Jim?)
 
I think you make a good distinction here that is worth keeping in mind. I suppose for myself, when I talk about high quality bonsai pots, I'm referring to show quality pots. It's true that most bonsai pots offered by clay hobbyists are just fine as training pots, or step up pots from nursery cans. There's nothing wrong with using less refined pots for these purposes.

The truth is though that most, if not all, pot makers aspire to make really good bonsai pots. I've never heard a potter say they're fine with making mediocre pots suitable for backyard bonsai only. I think it's fair to generalize that most potters would love to see their pots used in shows - especially at the national level. The only way to make it into the shows is to produce superior quality. I know I'm oversimplifying things, but it's just the way I see it.
This has a lot of truth to it but it is a rather broad generalization.
 
My main motivation for designing and building pots is to add to the menu of what’s available. In order to be truly creative I believe you need a healthy irreverence for the status quo. Healthy means, a deep appreciation for what has been but acknowledging there are other ways to see. I have no desire to make a cloud foot. The people that invented it do a masterful job of and I’m not gonna try to make a better one. I think there are many people in love with the Japanese aesthetic and especially that related to bonsai. I admire it deeply but I don’t want to recreate it for myself. I need a new drug!
 
I have seen it first hand. It takes me 5-6 time longer to make one slab pot and the people on the wheel have made 5-6 mug/bowls. I still refuse to get on a wheel
Slab built pots no doubt take more time to make than wheel thrown pots, but you have to keep in mind those individuals that can make 5-6 bowls may have have the skill to do that many in that amount of time. Repetition is the key to building your skill. The more you do something especially the same task over and over you become faster at doing it. If you were to make the same slab built pot over and over, I'm sure you will cut your building time probably by 1/3 or more. You shouldn't refuse to get on the wheel. As @penumbra stated it's an additional tool that can be used with slab building...........such as doing seamless oval pots.
 
I don't know what makes a "good" pot, so I'll be listening here. You can begin with exploring "patina", which I think is what I call "dirty" and wash off a each repot. I want my pots to look as good as new. Does a dirty pot insinuate that the tree in it is older that you may have thought if it was in a nice, clean pot?
I happen to like clean pots as well.
 
pictorially assisted

Damn...testing out some new shots and they look way better on the PC!
_DSC1035.JPG_DSC1075.JPG_DSC1125.JPG_DSC1134.JPG_DSC1143.JPG_DSC1148.JPG

These I made out of homage to Hamada. A Leach ash Glaze with Loclayglaze.

_DSC0920.JPG_DSC0921.JPG_DSC0924.JPG_DSC0925.JPG

........

I think simply planting a pot well can turn what we may see as flaws into design opportunities.

This is why I believe the only truly "good" pot, without subjectivity, is one that, not HAS patina, but has the potential to have patina.

That's why part of me is making these for your seedlings' seedlings' seedlings! (wink Emoji)

Sorce
 
This is my personal opinion on what I see regarding American bonsai pots. Those in the US that practice bonsai would like to see more American made bonsai pots, sure I can agree with that. However a large majority of those individuals don’t want to pay the “time” it takes to make quality pots. This results into the production of pots that can be made quicker for the market………..which equates to pots off the wheel.

Slab built pots take time. There’s no way going around that. Not until the American bonsai community is willing to support the potters that can make these pots that they are asking for, we will continue to see “faster made” pots available. We also have to keep in mind that not all US based potters have the skill, talent, ability, experience, competence, aptitude, or proficiency to make these quality pots. When one is dependent on their skill/talent to eat, it will be difficult for them to learn a new skill if they will not be compensated for their time.

People want to see slab built pots here in the US available, but don’t want to pay for the time it takes to make them……….so potters don’t make them. If people would buy them, potters would make them. This is simple to understand with supply and demand……..the demand is not there (only the talk) with no demand there is no supply.
 
Most slab built pots I see here posted on the forum have some form of a defect or another (at least to me) whether it’s warped walls, drooping lips on rims, warped feet where one foot is not touching, cracks, etc….

This is a question for potter’s here on Bnut that make slab built pots if you so choose to answer……….have you stopped and thought why is this happening to the pot and trying to correct these issues?
I’m a believer that for every pot that you make, your next pot should be better than the one previous to it. It’s a way of challenging yourself to do better, be better and the quality will show.

This is not meant to be an insult to any potter here. As pottery takes a skill to learn and every potter here has that skill, just some have more than others. If you make mediocre pots and never try to improve them you will always make mediocre pots.
 
This is my personal opinion on what I see regarding American bonsai pots. Those in the US that practice bonsai would like to see more American made bonsai pots, sure I can agree with that. However a large majority of those individuals don’t want to pay the “time” it takes to make quality pots. This results into the production of pots that can be made quicker for the market………..which equates to pots off the wheel.

Slab built pots take time. There’s no way going around that. Not until the American bonsai community is willing to support the potters that can make these pots that they are asking for, we will continue to see “faster made” pots available. We also have to keep in mind that not all US based potters have the skill, talent, ability, experience, competence, aptitude, or proficiency to make these quality pots. When one is dependent on their skill/talent to eat, it will be difficult for them to learn a new skill if they will not be compensated for their time.

People want to see slab built pots here in the US available, but don’t want to pay for the time it takes to make them……….so potters don’t make them. If people would buy them, potters would make them. This is simple to understand with supply and demand……..the demand is not there (only the talk) with no demand there is no supply.
I think there's a market for high-end slab built pots here in the US. The problem is that they are far and few between and the competition with high-end Japanese slab built pots is stiff. Most people looking to spend big bucks on a show quality pot aren't going to limit themselves to the US market only. They're going to look everywhere for the BEST pot they can afford. This usually means picking up a solid Japanese pot that is quality, will likely hold its value in the long run (I know, not always), and has some age on it. If you plan to make quality slab-built pots, then they better be really good, or a decent price for quality.

There's still a limit to what people are willing to spend on pottery here in the US. As I understand it, what is considered to be an expensive pot in the US is sometimes considered average in Japan (at least those you find in shows). This is antidotal though, and I'm by no means a Japanese bonsai pot value expert. I think as bonsai continues gaining popularity in the US, you'll find more people willing to spend more on higher end pots.
 
The problem is that they are far and few between and the competition with high-end Japanese slab built pots is stiff. Most people looking to spend big bucks on a show quality pot aren't going to limit themselves to the US market only. They're going to look everywhere for the BEST pot they can afford. This usually means picking up a solid Japanese pot that is quality, will likely hold its value in the long run (I know, not always), and has some age on it. If you plan to make quality slab-built pots, then they better be really good, or a decent price for quality.
That was part of the idea behind this post. I'd like to support potters in this country, but I wasn't seeing a lot of what I wanted and also wasn't getting enough of a break in price to warrant their consideration.

I think as bonsai continues gaining popularity in the US, you'll find more people willing to spend more on higher end pots.
As my trees have improved, I've certainly been more interested in better pots. I think there are a lot of us who've spent a while getting better trees, and are finding they're potted in duds now.
 
Back
Top Bottom