Growing in ground question

[Brim Gribley]

Hello everyone,
I would like to know what would be the benefits of just planting a tree straight in the ground VS burying a milk crate or something similar (filled with pumice, pine bark, sphagnum moss and ground soil mix) which the tree has been planted into? The roots still being able to eventually reach outside the container which is buried. Any thoughts on how this would affect the speed of thickening the trunk?
Any Advice, opinions, and thoughts are greatly appreciated.
Thanks!

 

[Srt8madness]

People often plant in flats that are set on the ground. Roots will escape into the ground and its easier to pull and root prune. I don't see an advantage to burying the crate unless for cold weather purposes.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Hello everyone,
I would like to know what would be the benefits of just planting a tree straight in the ground VS burying a milk crate or something similar (filled with pumice, pine bark, sphagnum moss and ground soil mix) which the tree has been planted into? The roots still being able to eventually reach outside the container which is buried. Any thoughts on how this would affect the speed of thickening the trunk?
Any Advice, opinions, and thoughts are greatly appreciated.
Thanks!

Root bags much better idea especially if roots do not escape.

 

[Shibui]

No advantage if milk crates are similar to ours. The spaces are just too big to be effective.
Many people plant in colander or grow bag in ground. Root tips can grow through the mesh but as they expand they are strangled and don't grow bigger. Leads to more small roots inside the colander for easier transplant later but allows some root growth outside for growth.
I don't bother. Annual dig and prune for faster growing species makes it easy to cut through roots, encourages great ramification and keeps roots to a suitable space for future pots.
Sloer growing species like juniper and pines can be left for several year between dig and root prune.

 

[ForThemWhatCare]

if you ground grow do you still have to water daily?

 

[BobbyLane]

if you ground grow do you still have to water daily?

Not at all. sometimes ill water in new plantings for the first 2-4 weeks until they get established 2-3 times a week. I use weed membrane in my grow bed so they tend to establish quite fast with the extra humidity the membrane provides.

 

[PieterVE]

Not at all. sometimes ill water in new plantings for the first 2-4 weeks until they get established 2-3 times a week. I use weed membrane in my grow bed so they tend to establish quite fast with the extra humidity the membrane provides.

idem dito here

 

[Brim Gribley]

This is great! Thank you all for this information. So would a creating a growing bed be worth while? The weed membrane is a wonderful idea. I’ve had a good deal of luck using black bags to encourage back budding, is the principal similar? Just below in the roots.

 

[rockm]

Hello everyone,
I would like to know what would be the benefits of just planting a tree straight in the ground VS burying a milk crate or something similar (filled with pumice, pine bark, sphagnum moss and ground soil mix) which the tree has been planted into? The roots still being able to eventually reach outside the container which is buried. Any thoughts on how this would affect the speed of thickening the trunk?
Any Advice, opinions, and thoughts are greatly appreciated.
Thanks!

Because any container slows growth. Planting in a double container slows growth, just as planting in a single container. That is how bonsai works--planting a tree in a container restricting root growth. A physical barrier in the ground is the same (mostly) as a container above ground. That is true until the roots in the buried container reach the outside soil. It can help to allow roots to "escape" into the ground and also with ultimately collecting a root mass when you dig it up. However, that buried container still slows the tree's roots down, slowing top growth. This can be worked to your advantage, but ultimately, direct in-ground growing (for more than three years) is the fastest way to put on heft in trunk and nebari...unlimited root run allows more growth than limited root run....A bigger root mass fuels more growth than a smaller one...

 

[Brim Gribley]

Because any container slows growth. Planting in a double container slows growth, just as planting in a single container. That is how bonsai works--planting a tree in a container restricting root growth. A physical barrier in the ground is the same (mostly) as a container above ground. That is true until the roots in the buried container reach the outside soil. It can help to allow roots to "escape" into the ground and also with ultimately collecting a root mass when you dig it up. However, that buried container still slows the tree's roots down, slowing top growth. This can be worked to your advantage, but ultimately, direct in-ground growing (for more than three years) is the fastest way to put on heft in trunk and nebari...unlimited root run allows more growth than limited root run....A bigger root mass fuels more growth than a smaller one...

Thank you, this makes complete sense and is well explained. Seems like there are different benefits to different ways, just depending on what would be my main goal during this phase of training if I’m following clearly.

 

[ForThemWhatCare]

Not at all. sometimes ill water in new plantings for the first 2-4 weeks until they get established 2-3 times a week. I use weed membrane in my grow bed so they tend to establish quite fast with the extra humidity the membrane provides.

Thanks! Do you place a flat rock or a small tile under the center or just let it grow naturally?

 

[BobbyLane]

Thanks! Do you place a flat rock or a small tile under the center or just let it grow naturally?

yes I do place one of either, but if its a tree that has a good, powerful nebari already i wouldnt bother.

 

[BobbyLane]

This one went in the ground without any tile. only because i wanted to grow a leader quickly and develop some better branch transitions, you can do that in a season or two in the ground

 

[Brim Gribley]

This one went in the ground without any tile. only because i wanted to grow a leader quickly and develop some better branch transitions, you can do that in a season or two in the ground

Looks great Bobby! Are the bottom branches thread grafts?

 

[Brim Gribley]

Also,do you clear away most of the bonsai soil before putting it in?

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

My back yard is horrible sub-soil clay. The top soil was removed when the house was built 100 years ago and the "fill" used to cover the clay was a thin layer of slightly darker clay. You can use my "dirt" to make bricks. I never plant anything I want into the ground, because in a few months there will be no way to dig it up without destroying the roots, and often the trunk too.

I found it much easier to just containerize everything, Keep it all portable.

 

[BobbyLane]

Looks great Bobby! Are the bottom branches thread grafts?

no threads grafts no, If the roots have already been sorted and its going from a bonsai pot to the ground i dont clear away bonsai soil no. I often use old bonsai soil to top up or fill in the planting holes though, just mixed in with the dirt or compost.

 

[BrianBay9]

My back yard is horrible sub-soil clay. The top soil was removed when the house was built 100 years ago and the "fill" used to cover the clay was a thin layer of slightly darker clay. You can use my "dirt" to make bricks. I never plant anything I want into the ground, because in a few months there will be no way to dig it up without destroying the roots, and often the trunk too.

I found it much easier to just containerize everything, Keep it all portable.

Raised beds overcome a variety of soil sins...

 

[Brim Gribley]

no threads grafts no, If the roots have already been sorted and its going from a bonsai pot to the ground i dont clear away bonsai soil no. I often use old bonsai soil to top up or fill in the planting holes though, just mixed in with the dirt or compost.

Thanks Bobby!

 

[ForThemWhatCare]

So is this still a good time to transfer to the ground?