Growing in ground question

[Shibui]

So is this still a good time to transfer to the ground?

Are you prepared to bare root, prune roots and arrange roots to radial pattern now? The answer will depend on locality, species, etc

Planting container grown trees into ground anytime is fine BUT small tangled roots will become big tangled roots real quick. If that's what you want for nebari go ahead and plant out trees without any root work.
If you want good nebari it is imperative that roots be placed with care when ground planting. I don't often use the bible as a source of bonsai info but in this case - what you sow so shall you reap is very applicable.

I doubt you'll get a lot of growth from now to fall so planting now won't give much advantage. Doing it properly in spring will have many advantages.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

So is this still a good time to transfer to the ground?

Really depends on a number of factors. Including species of tree, how hardy the tree is in your climate. And how it is potted right now. Obviously a bare root or ball and burlap tree needs to be planted right away. A tree in a pot is not an emergency case.

Yes, there is a brief period, which ends soon, in which you can do repotting for some species in late summer, early autumn. Generally it is not advisable to do much pruning of roots. Just spread the roots out and call it quits. Repotting any time other than late winter or early spring is an "advanced topic" for "experienced horticulture", fatalities are much more likely.

You can just heal in a pot, where you bury pot an all in the garden. This gives the stability of the ground for temperatures. But you much keep an eye on watering. The media in the pot may stay wet or may dry more quickly than the soil outside the pot. You need to check the soil inside the pot to know if you need to water.

 

[Brim Gribley]

I am planning on keeping the tree in the pot or possibly putting the tree in a slightly larger pot (not disturbing the roots at all) with better soil around the mass, then burying the pot for winter and any maintenance on the roots will be done in early spring. Im in the northeast though, NY

 

[Paradox]

We have about another month at least in Southern NY where we will still see some growth on trees, maybe a month and a half if we have a mild or late fall

 

[Shibui]

I am planning on keeping the tree in the pot or possibly putting the tree in a slightly larger pot (not disturbing the roots at all) with better soil around the mass, then burying the pot for winter and any maintenance on the roots will be done in early spring. Im in the northeast though, NY

You can bury pots any time of year. I don't like that as a long term grow technique because there's a good chance of just 1 or 2 roots escaping and getting huge at the expense of other desirable radial roots. For just a few months of fall and winter there should be no problem with roots taking over but I'd definitely pull it up and do a real root prune in spring before getting it back in.

 

[Brim Gribley]

You can bury pots any time of year. I don't like that as a long term grow technique because there's a good chance of just 1 or 2 roots escaping and getting huge at the expense of other desirable radial roots. For just a few months of fall and winter there should be no problem with roots taking over but I'd definitely pull it up and do a real root prune in spring before getting it back in.

Thanks Shibui, My plan was ground growing under a tile
to thicken it after the winter, no pot after spring. Just let it grow free for a few years periodically cutting back after the flushes.

 

[Shibui]

Thanks Shibui, My plan was ground growing under a tile
to thicken it after the winter, no pot after spring. Just let it grow free for a few years periodically cutting back after the flushes.

You have not been round very long so probably have not seen my posts re planting on tiles. in short I have not found it worth while and at worst can cause unforseen problems.
Tiles can do some good but you DO need to root prune properly first and arrange the roots in a single radial layer on the tile for it to be effective. My experience has been that I achieve the same results by root pruning and arranging the roots even without the tile. Only a few roots head down after that treatment and they are easily removed at the next dig and prune.
We have not yet talked about species. They all respond differently. Tridents will grow new roots from the trunk just under soil surface so planting those deeper just allows new roots to develop. Plant tridents in the ground with roots just covered enough to prevent the drying out. I dig and prune tridents every winter because the roots get too thick and harder to dig if left longer. Regular pruning gives the trunk some bends and better taper. Pruning roots of tridents regularly develops a strong nebari with lots of fine roots.
Pines and junipers are much slower to develop and I leave those in for 3-5 years at a time. Pines don't seem to develop many new roots so what you plant is what you are likely to harvest except thicker.

You'll get very little growth this late in summer and if planning to set up roots properly in spring I can't see any point in planting out now.

 

[Brim Gribley]

You have not been round very long so probably have not seen my posts re planting on tiles. in short I have not found it worth while and at worst can cause unforseen problems.
Tiles can do some good but you DO need to root prune properly first and arrange the roots in a single radial layer on the tile for it to be effective. My experience has been that I achieve the same results by root pruning and arranging the roots even without the tile. Only a few roots head down after that treatment and they are easily removed at the next dig and prune.
We have not yet talked about species. They all respond differently. Tridents will grow new roots from the trunk just under soil surface so planting those deeper just allows new roots to develop. Plant tridents in the ground with roots just covered enough to prevent the drying out. I dig and prune tridents every winter because the roots get too thick and harder to dig if left longer. Regular pruning gives the trunk some bends and better taper. Pruning roots of tridents regularly develops a strong nebari with lots of fine roots.
Pines and junipers are much slower to develop and I leave those in for 3-5 years at a time. Pines don't seem to develop many new roots so what you plant is what you are likely to harvest except thicker.

You'll get very little growth this late in summer and if planning to set up roots properly in spring I can't see any point in planting out now.

Thank you for your response and all the great info, I think you might have misunderstood my last post,my apologies if I was not clear, I will leave the tree in the pot but place the pot in the ground for the winter. Early spring I will prune and put back in the ground, sans the pot, do you feel winter is a better time for root pruning?

 

[Srt8madness]

Dbl post

 

[Srt8madness]

Cutting roots or foliage when the plant isn't actively growing typically isn't a great idea IMO. That's why early spring has been suggested.

 

[Shibui]

Thank you for your response and all the great info, I think you might have misunderstood my last post,my apologies if I was not clear, I will leave the tree in the pot but place the pot in the ground for the winter. Early spring I will prune and put back in the ground, sans the pot, do you feel winter is a better time for root pruning?

I understood the gist of the post but failed to take into account that your climate is very different to here. I understand that burying pots is common practice to overwinter trees in places with cooler winters and that may be your purpose, otherwise no real benefit IMHO.
In our warmer winters where ground never freezes I can dig and root prune any time from leaf fall through to bud burst in spring - no problem with most species. That is probably not possible for you so please take advice from those who have local experience. Spring, closer to bud burst is generally seen as the time to do root pruning in most climates and especially colder places.

 

[Brim Gribley]

I understood the gist of the post but failed to take into account that your climate is very different to here. I understand that burying pots is common practice to overwinter trees in places with cooler winters and that may be your purpose, otherwise no real benefit IMHO.
In our warmer winters where ground never freezes I can dig and root prune any time from leaf fall through to bud burst in spring - no problem with most species. That is probably not possible for you so please take advice from those who have local experience. Spring, closer to bud burst is generally seen as the time to do root pruning in most climates and especially colder places.

Thank you, It's shared knowledge from experience and In my opinion that is advice you can't put a price on, I appreciate it greatly. I did find and read your thread mentioning growing under tiles and found it very helpful, I will cross that bridge in spring providing the trees make it through the winter happy and healthy.

 

[NamesakE]

This one went in the ground without any tile. only because i wanted to grow a leader quickly and develop some better branch transitions, you can do that in a season or two in the ground

Root system looks great. What's your soil mix?

 

[BobbyLane]

Root system looks great. What's your soil mix?

thats a nursery plant, so a mixture of nursery soil and garden compost i guess n a bit of old bonsai soil thrown on top.

 

[NamesakE]

thats a nursery plant, so a mixture of nursery soil and garden compost i guess n a bit of old bonsai soil thrown on top.

Ah gotcha. Thanks!

 

[The Warm Canuck]

Hello everyone,
I would like to know what would be the benefits of just planting a tree straight in the ground VS burying a milk crate or something similar (filled with pumice, pine bark, sphagnum moss and ground soil mix) which the tree has been planted into? The roots still being able to eventually reach outside the container which is buried. Any thoughts on how this would affect the speed of thickening the trunk?
Any Advice, opinions, and thoughts are greatly appreciated.
Thanks!

I'd just like to point out that it's a bad horticultural practice to plant a tree with a dissimilar substrate mix into a native soil. i.e. an inorganic bonsai soil mix into an organic soil. The different moisture retention characteristics of the substrates will lead to problems.

If your tree is in an organic soil mix, then just split potting it into the ground is no problem, and will make it actually more resistant to the winter, as long as the species hardyness is sufficient. Your mix appears to have a large amount of organic matter, however, it does contain pumice and I could imagine as the only inorganic compound, I'd guess in a large percentage. Due to the varied components, I'd advise waiting until spring to repot into a similar soil that would be in the ground where you'll be planting.

As stated earlier, your results from ground growing will greatly increase based on your soil conditions. If like me, your soil is mainly clay, then results will be poor. In my case, I built grow beds, just a simple 2'x4'x8; x 10" deep box, built with pressure treated lumber and filled with a good quality aerated organic soil mix. Furthermore, I dug 3" of the native clay soil underneath the boxes, to increase drainage. The trunk diameters in just one year are truly a testament to ground growing.

All my trees are planted in pond baskets in the grow beds. It's nice having structure to wire the tree to after repotting, which helps with uprooting in windy conditions, with newly repotted trees. I tape the holes in the bottom of the basket with tuck tape (the blue moisture barrier one), leaving just a few holes for drainage, so when i need to dig the tree up, it's as simple as taking a saw and just shaving the roots along the sided of the basket and up the tree comes.

I also tried planting in grow bags, and found that the growth wasn't close to as robust as in the pond baskets. The grow bags appear to restrict root growth to the interiors of the bags, with just a small amount of roots growing through. I could see this as advantageous to later stages of development when one would be trying to compartmentalize root ramification, as where the pond baskets root growth may become too vigourous. However, in early development it seems too slow for the main benefit of ground growing, i.e. vigorous trunk thickening.