100% diatomite for soil?

[sikadelic]

Just discovered that Agway does carry Dry Stall (40# bag) on their website, so I think it's safe to assume you can order it at any of their stores. Might be a viable option for anyone living in the Northeast to get their hands on small granule pumice. I'm going to contact my local store this week to see about availability & pricing.

Found mine at a local feed and seed store. If they don't have it on hand they can likely order it for you.

 

[Paulkellum]

I do think it is kind of funny that people worry about using akadama because it breaks down in a few years but bark is ok. Just a observation from sidelines. I also think it's kinda strange when people have trees worth 500 up to a few thousand try to save money on the soil. The thing that keeps it healthy and alive. Here is a good experiment non organic soil on one side and soil with organic matter on the other. Leave the bark for mulching flower beds to reduce weed growth as all bark breaks down creates heat for bacteria breaking it down and acid hurting super fine feeder roots not helping them. Spend money and repot every other year if you need to but get your trees heathy and stop being cheap on soil. Don't have time to sift buy clay king or aoki at 50 bucks a bag all ready to go.

 

[Paulkellum]

Does anyone use 100% diatomite for Japanese maples? I have successfully used it for all of my tropical bonsai trees for almost 10 years now and just wondering if anyone else has any experience with it on Japanese maples. I'm planning to put several young maples in large 15" x 19" x 5" plastic trays from the Container Store. It will save a lot of money than using bonsai soil from my local bonsai store.

I get the diatomite from Napa. It's sold as an oil absorbent. I forgot how much a 5-pound bag costs because I haven't bought one for a couple of years, but it's like $10 or something.

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Oil-Absorbent-24-QT-Diatomaceous-Earth-Absorbent/_/R-NFA8822_0178972712

Here's what it looks like. For those who don't know, diatomite is fossilized aquatic plankton. It can absorb a lot of water and does not break down at all. It's hard like rock. Thanks!

Soil should never be mounded up flat and level like 3/16 shorter than pot. If you have roots your trying to keep moist in middle little moss not the live stuff could help but should never be mounted.

 

[GrimLore]

Spend money and repot every other year if you need to but get your trees heathy and stop being cheap on soil. Don't have time to sift buy clay king or aoki at 50 bucks a bag all ready to go.

I do not use any soil... I do not know what you are growing but all of our plants do just fine in pumice.

Grimmy

 

[aphid]

Soil should never be mounded up flat and level like 3/16 shorter than pot. If you have roots your trying to keep moist in middle little moss not the live stuff could help but should never be mounted.

Thank you for your comment, but it was done intentionally to promote aerial roots. The picture was taken before I wrapped that whole mount with plastic wrap.

 

[JoeR]

Ok I did more research and it changed what I thought I knew about this stuff...

Diatomite is naturally occurring "fossilized rock" made from the skeletons of microscopic silica exoskeletons of diatoms (algae/plankton) that accumulate on the bottom of a body of water over long periods of time.

It is mined in solid form, but is lightweight for its volume (when dry it will often float on water), and breaks down and can be crushed easily. Diatomaceous Earth (like what you use in pool filters) is the crushed form of this solid mined product.

It occurs naturally in white to a light cream.

So I don't know what the colored stuff is? Is it a different product mixed in? Or a result of processing? Or artificial coloration?

[EDIT]

Doing some research on Oil Dri's site, they show the regional variations that can exist in some of their products... so it may just depend where you live and/or where it is shipped from.

And finally... a cool video about them making Pro's Choice (their version of Turface) showing the firing (calcining) process:

[video=youtube;HEBtQfV4UVE]

[/video]

I know - a little off-topic, but I thought this stuff was cool

I sent an email to Oil-Dri asking them about it, so we'll see if I get a response.

Did you ever get a response?


Man I hope my Napa DE is the purdy red-ish color.

 

[GroveKeeper]

Besides washing off the dust, do you sieve it?

I've been using NAPA DE for few years and sieving is really handy. If you sieve wisely you can get a lot of usable product(probably 90 percent or more) out of the bag. First I screen it all through a kitchen sieve that is 3mm. Then I run the fines through a window screen. The stuff that gets caught in the window screen drains very well but you end up with two batches that have more homogeneous particle sizes.

 

[KennedyMarx]

Did you ever get a response?


Man I hope my Napa DE is the purdy red-ish color.

It's pretty much all white until wet then you get the different colors, mostly tan with a bit of red here and there.

 

[JoeR]

@sorce

I think I am going to do something risky involving 100% Napa DE, stay tuned!


Hopefully today or maybe tomorrow you shall see.

 

[sorce]

@sorce

I think I am going to do something risky involving 100% Napa DE, stay tuned!


Hopefully today or maybe tomorrow you shall see.

I got something brewing like Smoke in an elevator right now!

I hope yours doesn't include sifting it with no mask!

Sorce

 

[JoeR]

I got something brewing like Smoke in an elevator right now!

I hope yours doesn't include sifting it with no mask!

Sorce

Not that type of risky! I guess ballsy is more of the word?

If my brother ever gets here! He works at napa and is bringing me the stuff today. I wonder what kind of discount he can get me..m

 

[M. Frary]

I think I am going to do something risky involving 100% Napa DE, stay tuned!

Whiff up a big fat line of it.
Set you right up.

 

[aphid]

Color difference between Optisorb (left) and Napa 8822 Floor Dry (right). Optisorb is slightly larger.

These were unsieved. I also got some they were sieved. An experiment to see if sieving matters for pond baskets and colanders.

 

[sorce]

An experiment to see if sieving matters for pond baskets and colanders

I was gonna see if you were still sifting for pots and not baskets.....

I went to see the hole size of your colanders and baskets....those pond baskets with the handles seem to have smaller holes than the Depot ones....

Anyway....

Soil does fall out. Unsifted soil will for sure...lessin you screen line em.

But...

I wouldn't use it Unsifted anyway...

The fines...under 2mm, dusted and window screened, stay wet, and interlock so close, water pools at the top of baskets.

Eew. Those roots from the Hagedorn turface hating blog post come to mind.

I would use it for outdoor ficus, willow, forsythia....but only THIRSTY stuff...
And in an emergency.

However....

We are not talking about fines...

We are talking about Unsifted....

So we must talk about inconsistency.

If one has ever payed attention while sifting an entire bag of 8822...
One will notice by the end....
You end up with less useful product per scoop.

"Contents may settle"

So...

While the first plants you pot off top may do well...(larger particles)
The ones potted from the bottom of the bag may die.(smaller particles)

Unsifted....
You don't know where the smaller particles will settle into your tree...

Even if a dense pocket doesn't rot roots, or never even gets wet (I've been witnessing this with sifted lately), it won't grow equal....

So for S&G...

Let's say a dense pocket grows roots worse...
And a dense pocket lands around a root you need bigger....
Leading to a lopsided future.

With equal soil.
You can again just prune back accordingly, knowing you'll get more even root growth.

I'd show you my lopsided elm cuz I didn't use good Soil in a nonscreenlined basket...
But it's time capsuled!

JKL spoke about control.
It applies everywhere.

Your 8822 Student.

Sorce

 

[milehigh_7]

Color difference between Optisorb (left) and Napa 8822 Floor Dry (right). Optisorb is slightly larger.

These were unsieved. I also got some they were sieved. An experiment to see if sieving matters for pond baskets and colanders.

I prefer Optisorb all made by the same company... EP minerals. It is about 25-30% larger particle size and far fewer fines.

 

[aphid]

I went to see the hole size of your colanders and baskets....those pond baskets with the handles seem to have smaller holes than the Depot ones....

I got these 10" pond baskets from Dr Fosters and Smith online for around $5, which is twice the cost of the 15" rectangular colanders. I only use the pond basket to do a wire airlayer to get rid of an ugly graft union.

While the first plants you pot off top may do well...(larger particles)
The ones potted from the bottom of the bag may die.(smaller particles)

That's a good point. 10 years ago, the 8822 was much much larger. Too bad they changed it.

I prefer Optisorb all made by the same company... EP minerals. It is about 25-30% larger particle size and far fewer fines.

I agree. The color isn't as nice unfortunately, but I think I'm going to switch to Optisorb from now on. It's less frustrating to sieve because you get more out of it.

 

[milehigh_7]

EP states the particle size for both on the material sheets...

 

[milehigh_7]

Here is about the best price you will find. It's free shipping over $77 I got it for $2 less on a sale but this is still better than the autoparts store.

https://www.zerbee.com/Products/Ind...nds--Mineral-Earth-Particulates__MOL8925.aspx

 

[Vance Wood]

Here is about the best price you will find. It's free shipping over $77 I got it for $2 less on a sale but this is still better than the autoparts store.

https://www.zerbee.com/Products/Ind...nds--Mineral-Earth-Particulates__MOL8925.aspx

Thanks for taking the time to search and post this stuff.

 

[aphid]

Here is about the best price you will find. It's free shipping over $77 I got it for $2 less on a sale but this is still better than the autoparts store.

https://www.zerbee.com/Products/Ind...nds--Mineral-Earth-Particulates__MOL8925.aspx

I got mine at Zoro. It's $9/bag with free shipping if over $50.

https://www.zoro.com/ep-minerals-universal-absorbent-25-lb-bag-8925/i/G3522854/?q=G3522854