acer palmatum seigen (grafted on JM) from Maillot erables

[clem]

hello, here is the recent evolution of my seigen JM bought last year. I plan to airlayer it because it is grafted on JM stock.

Here is the tree when i recieved it (june 2024) ->


March 2025, i try to airlayer it ->

tourniquet ->



Yesterday, i removed the soil to check the airlayer, but, apart from a nice callus, I don't see any roots ->





So, I then removed a ring of bark and made incisions under the tourniquet, to try to better stimulate the appearance of roots ->



I replaced the fine akadama with sphagnum, hoping that it would improve rooting ->

 

[SeanS]

@clem I can’t confirm if sphagnum has some magical property but I’ve had success adding sphagnum to layers that aren’t rooting with only akadama. It could just be that they needed more time and would have rooted eventually with the pure akadama, but after adding sphagnum around the callous they have then started to root.

 

[clem]

@clem I can’t confirm if sphagnum has some magical property but I’ve had success adding sphagnum to layers that aren’t rooting with only akadama. It could just be that they needed more time and would have rooted eventually with the pure akadama, but after adding sphagnum around the callous they have then started to root.

hello, sphagnum moss is known to release auxines when watering. I read that info in a recent "Bonsai Focus" magasine so I assume this information is reliable

 

[SaltySea]

I've tried twice to air layer Seigen and I have not been able to get roots. It creates a great callous as you've seen on your tree but that's the limit for me. Good luck Clem

 

[Canada Bonsai]

@clem I wonder if Danny Use would have any insights for you if the need arises. A few years ago I took a workshop with Danny on Japanese Maples and he mentioned air layering Seigen maples. From memory, he did not mention anything particular about air layering them (e.g. slower or more difficult), but I wonder if he would have anything to say.

Good luck!

 

[achtungluchs]

@clem are you happy with the characteristics of your Seigen?
I'm asking in the context of this thread

Thread 'One of these Seigens is not like the other...'

Mar 25, 2025

I've spoken with several JM nurserymen here on the east coast about how 'east coast Seigens' are not the same as 'west coast Seigens'. Thought I would share pics of what I'm talking about:

East Coast Seigen (four grafted trees from reputable nursery on East Coast). I've had these trees since spring, 2024. Growing in my maple soil mix.




West Coast Seigen (two grafted trees from reputable nursery on West Coast). I've had these trees since spring, 2023. Growing in my maple soil mix.




Side by side...


Anyone else have a...

• Bonsai Nut
• Replies: 139
• Forum: Maples

• 
• 

you've already seen the spring growth.
I also bought a Seigen from them this May, and it looks very similar to my Shin Deshojo.
Shin deshojo

Seigen

 

[clem]

@clem are you happy with the characteristics of your Seigen?
I'm asking in the context of this thread

Thread 'One of these Seigens is not like the other...'

Mar 25, 2025

I've spoken with several JM nurserymen here on the east coast about how 'east coast Seigens' are not the same as 'west coast Seigens'. Thought I would share pics of what I'm talking about:

East Coast Seigen (four grafted trees from reputable nursery on East Coast). I've had these trees since spring, 2024. Growing in my maple soil mix.




West Coast Seigen (two grafted trees from reputable nursery on West Coast). I've had these trees since spring, 2023. Growing in my maple soil mix.




Side by side...


Anyone else have a...

• Bonsai Nut
• Replies: 139
• Forum: Maples

• 
• 

you've already seen the spring growth.
I also bought a Seigen from them this May, and it looks very similar to my Shin Deshojo.

IMO you need to compare adult leaves from you seigen and your shin deshojo.

I'm not a pro, I am a simple amateur.. I notice that the central leaflet of the seigen is longer and thinner than the deshojo. I don't know the shin deshojo. In any case, the nuances are subtle and you should buy if you have 100% confidence in the skills and seriousness of the seller.

Personally, I am satisfied with my seigen from Maillot, which has a very narrow central leaflet and is longer than my other acer palmatums.
Maillot's cultivars are grafted and I trust that he grafts Seigen and not Deshojo and that he labels correctly.

 

[clem]

@clem I wonder if Danny Use would have any insights for you if the need arises. A few years ago I took a workshop with Danny on Japanese Maples and he mentioned air layering Seigen maples. From memory, he did not mention anything particular about air layering them (e.g. slower or more difficult), but I wonder if he would have anything to say.

Good luck!

Interesting. I will not send him message because I don't know him and he is certainly very busy with his Bonsai collection/nursery etc.

If the airlayering doesn't work, I'll try next year with a thinner and still flexible stem, like those used for cuttings.

 

[MrBonsai19]

If you are going to layer a shoot that is near thickness of a cutting why not just take a cutting? My first thought in seeing your air layer was "this branch is really thin for air layering". Not suggesting that it is impossible to do on a thin shoot, but I think I have heard that the thinner the shoot the more difficult the air layering process will be (all other things being equal in terms of genetics) and less wiggle room you have in terms of the technique to create the girdle.

That said, if it was me, I would let this tree grow on root stock for a few years while shaping each of the areas that you intend to air layer. Sure you will lose a few seasons of nebari development, but you will gain more vigorous development of the trunk and structure due to being on rootstock during that time. You can maintain the mother tree on the root stock indefinitely and grow out multiple potential future air layers until you have closer to a 1 inch thick trunk and then proceed with separating the pieces that are most interesting.

But I also love and appreciate seeing every possible strategy of handling maples and the fact you've already applied the girdle means you are committed at least for this particular shoot. So I would definitely follow along with your progress. I do like the idea of Sphagnum Moss. Scott Elser did a presentation on Air Layering for the GSBF YouTube channel and I saved this diagram of his recommended container preparation. Sphagnum moss in contact with the girdled trunk seems to be a best practice at least in my learnings:



I don't know what the magic sauce is for sphagnum either, but I have two "Seigen" air layers that have just started to show some roots and I use the plastic wrap + sphagnum method on those. I say "Seigen" in quotation marks because in reading the other thread about genetics for Seigen it sounds like Round Valley material may not be true genetic seigens so I don't know exactly what to make of that. The tree was sold to me as a Seigen and it is producing roots now:





The girdle was applied on May 23 so I would say this is a bit slower than I would have liked, but perfectly reasonable time to root. I use Clonex for rooting hormone.

 

[clem]

If you are going to layer a shoot that is near thickness of a cutting why not just take a cutting? My first thought in seeing your air layer was "this branch is really thin for air layering". Not suggesting that it is impossible to do on a thin shoot, but I think I have heard that the thinner the shoot the more difficult the air layering process will be (all other things being equal in terms of genetics) and less wiggle room you have in terms of the technique to create the girdle.

That said, if it was me, I would let this tree grow on root stock for a few years while shaping each of the areas that you intend to air layer. Sure you will lose a few seasons of nebari development, but you will gain more vigorous development of the trunk and structure due to being on rootstock during that time. You can maintain the mother tree on the root stock indefinitely and grow out multiple potential future air layers until you have closer to a 1 inch thick trunk and then proceed with separating the pieces that are most interesting.

But I also love and appreciate seeing every possible strategy of handling maples and the fact you've already applied the girdle means you are committed at least for this particular shoot. So I would definitely follow along with your progress. I do like the idea of Sphagnum Moss. Scott Elser did a presentation on Air Layering for the GSBF YouTube channel and I saved this diagram of his recommended container preparation. Sphagnum moss in contact with the girdled trunk seems to be a best practice at least in my learnings:

View attachment 605750

I don't know what the magic sauce is for sphagnum either, but I have two "Seigen" air layers that have just started to show some roots and I use the plastic wrap + sphagnum method on those. I say "Seigen" in quotation marks because in reading the other thread about genetics for Seigen it sounds like Round Valley material may not be true genetic seigens so I don't know exactly what to make of that. The tree was sold to me as a Seigen and it is producing roots now:

View attachment 605751

View attachment 605752

The girdle was applied on May 23 so I would say this is a bit slower than I would have liked, but perfectly reasonable time to root. I use Clonex for rooting hormone.

Thanks, I used "root it" for rooting hormone but it is an old bottle.
I already made airlayering on thin & flexibles branches, with Arakawa and with Deshojo, and it worked well. So i don't need to try another technique (cutting, air layering on bigger trunk) on those cultivar.
On Seigen, i don't know yet if it will be successfull.. Time will tell.

I don't know if your seigen is a real one, but a member of a french Bonsai Forum (Parlons Bonsai) managed to successfully airlayer a seigen. I asked him to show some pictures...