Another Mirai Tree Sale in a few days

[AcerAddict]

I have a question for all you who would prefer to have a tree of your own reach "Mirai quality" due to your own time and effort as opposed to spending a large chunk of money and buying one during Ryan's sales.

If we were talking about classic cars instead of bonsai trees, would you still have the same opinion? Would you rather get a rusted shell out of a barn and spend three or four years and thousands of hours (and dollars) restoring it yourself, or would you instead prefer to go to a classic car dealership/auction and just buy one that someone else restored?

I'm not being snarky here either. I would genuinely like to know if the subject was different, if the opinions would be the same. It's the whole "built vs. bought" argument, so to speak.

 

[Scorpius]

I have a question for all you who would prefer to have a tree of your own reach "Mirai quality" due to your own time and effort as opposed to spending a large chunk of money and buying one during Ryan's sales.

If we were talking about classic cars instead of bonsai trees, would you still have the same opinion? Would you rather get a rusted shell out of a barn and spend three or four years and thousands of hours (and dollars) restoring it yourself, or would you instead prefer to go to a classic car dealership/auction and just buy one that someone else restored?

I'm not being snarky here either. I would genuinely like to know if the subject was different, if the opinions would be the same. It's the whole "built vs. bought" argument, so to speak.

For classics, I would buy a restored one. I don't have the time or skills to restore it the level I would want it to be.

Same goes for bonsai. I buy trees that are furthered developed that I could hope to ever accomplish. I know I'm not going to live forever so personally I would prefer to have some ancient looking trees on my benches while I'm still young.

 

[Paradox]

I have a question for all you who would prefer to have a tree of your own reach "Mirai quality" due to your own time and effort as opposed to spending a large chunk of money and buying one during Ryan's sales.

If we were talking about classic cars instead of bonsai trees, would you still have the same opinion? Would you rather get a rusted shell out of a barn and spend three or four years and thousands of hours (and dollars) restoring it yourself, or would you instead prefer to go to a classic car dealership/auction and just buy one that someone else restored?

I'm not being snarky here either. I would genuinely like to know if the subject was different, if the opinions would be the same. It's the whole "built vs. bought" argument, so to speak.

I think the difference is that many of us don't have the mechanical know how to build / restore a car, or perhaps the money either.

Growing out your own tree would most likely be cheaper money wise, not so time wise.
However the likelihood of growing out your tree from prebonsai stock into something like the yamadori that Ryan works with is very unlikely. However taking nursery stock like what he has done and turning it into something similar is possible if you know what you are doing. If you're lucky enough to be able to collect yamadori, you can certainly develop trees similar to those that Ryan has, again if you know what you are doing.

For myself, I'd neither restore nor buy a classic car. I have my one vehicle that serves me well and does what it's designed to do so no need for another one to maintain and insure.

Paying 5 to 10K for a tree is simply out of the question.

 

[AcerAddict]

For classics, I would buy a restored one. I don't have the time or skills to restore it the level I would want it to be.

Same goes for bonsai. I buy trees that are furthered developed that I could hope to ever accomplish. I know I'm not going to live forever so personally I would prefer to have some ancient looking trees on my benches while I'm still young.

Yes, and yes. While I am only in my early 40's, I don't want to wait 20 years to have some really good looking trees. I'm confident in my ability to properly care for species that I've had as garden/landscape plants already, such as Japanese maples, crape myrtles, and azaleas, so the only real barrier that would prevent me from owning some well-developed trees is the limit of how much I want to spend.

By the way, where are you at in NW Indiana? I spent my early childhood in Chesterton, just east of Gary. Also frequented Michigan City, La Porte and Valpo. Many fond memories of summers spent on Lake Michigan as well.

 

[Scorpius]

Yes, and yes. While I am only in my early 40's, I don't want to wait 20 years to have some really good looking trees. I'm confident in my ability to properly care for species that I've had as garden/landscape plants already, such as Japanese maples, crape myrtles, and azaleas, so the only real barrier that would prevent me from owning some well-developed trees is the limit of how much I want to spend.

By the way, where are you at in NW Indiana? I spent my early childhood in Chesterton, just east of Gary. Also frequented Michigan City, La Porte and Valpo. Many fond memories of summers spent on Lake Michigan as well.

Jasper County. Not far from Fair Oaks Farm if you're familiar.

 

[AcerAddict]

I think the difference is that many of us don't have the mechanical know how to build / restore a car, or perhaps the money either.

Growing out your own tree would most likely be cheaper money wise, not so time wise.
However the likelihood of growing out your tree from prebonsai stock into something like the yamadori that Ryan works with is very unlikely. However taking nursery stock like what he has done and turning it into something similar is possible if you know what you are doing. If you're lucky enough to be able to collect yamadori, you can certainly develop trees similar to those that Ryan has, again if you know what you are doing.

For myself, I'd neither restore nor buy a classic car. I have my one vehicle that serves me well and does what it's designed to do so no need for another one to maintain and insure.

Paying 5 to 10K for a tree is simply out of the question.

The classic car question was somewhat rhetorical in nature. I know not everyone wants the cost/responsibility of, or has the space for, an additional vehicle. It was just to say hey, if everything else was equal, would you rather buy or build?

 

[Shogun610]

I have a question for all you who would prefer to have a tree of your own reach "Mirai quality" due to your own time and effort as opposed to spending a large chunk of money and buying one during Ryan's sales.

If we were talking about classic cars instead of bonsai trees, would you still have the same opinion? Would you rather get a rusted shell out of a barn and spend three or four years and thousands of hours (and dollars) restoring it yourself, or would you instead prefer to go to a classic car dealership/auction and just buy one that someone else restored?

I'm not being snarky here either. I would genuinely like to know if the subject was different, if the opinions would be the same. It's the whole "built vs. bought" argument, so to speak.

I would rather restore the car, and work with friends that have done that work before. But this is about Bonsai trees , so I’d rather collect the spruce , pine or deciduous tree or whatever it is , and develop it over the years to its eventual readiness for repotting and styling for a more show ready finished tree. Heck I’d also source collected material from others (which I have) to be able to make it my own too , and still not have to pay the money for a whole finished tree. In that time I’d rather make business connections for a appropriate pot or search in the wild for the perfect stone for it. If it were a field growth tree that has the diameter that suits , I’d do the same for development etc. I’d rather develop my own style while pulling what and whom has influenced me along the way. If others wait a few years to develop a proper tree / forest composition whatever I can do that too. I’m putting in time every week to work w a professional that I learn from, have met other professionals that I got to work with just by exposure and knowing my teacher and going to club workshops and making friends in the bonsai community to learn and feed off their creative energy too. I like the process it’s a craft/ art / lifestyle for me.. but then again I’m 30 and I know time is a factor for others in this game.

 

[AcerAddict]

Jasper County. Not far from Fair Oaks Farm if you're familiar.

I remember hearing of the town of Rensselaer once or twice, but don't recall ever being that far south.

 

[Scorpius]

I remember hearing of the town of Rensselaer once or twice, but don't recall ever being that far south.

That's where I work.

 

[Paradox]

The classic car question was somewhat rhetorical in nature. I know not everyone wants the cost/responsibility of, or has the space for, an additional vehicle. It was just to say hey, if everything else was equal, would you rather buy or build?

This is a loaded question. I see you're trying to get people to think: "Hey if I wouldn't build the car, why wouldn't I buy the tree?"

I would buy the car because I don't have the knowledge nor the desire or facilities and equipment to restore one.

I would grow the tree because I do have at least some of the knowledge, the space, the tools and the desire to grow one

 

[Scorpius]

I get both sides of the coin so to speak. Growing a tree from seed or purchasing a very refined tree. My thinking is that I'm not guaranteed tomorrow so why not enjoy a nice tree now You're also not going to take that money with you when you die anyways. Might as well spend it on something I enjoy. To each their own, though lately I do find it odd how people hoard money like it's some sort of game that whoever has the most at the end of life wins. Humans, what odd creatures we are.

 

[Shogun610]

I get both sides of the coin so to speak. Growing a tree from seed or purchasing a very refined tree. My thinking is that I'm not guaranteed tomorrow so why not enjoy a nice tree now You're also not going to take that money with you when you die anyways. Might as well spend it on something I enjoy. To each their own, though lately I do find it odd how people hoard money like it's some sort of game that whoever has the most at the end of life wins. Humans, what odd creatures we are.

Yeah who saves up money for their future anyway

 

[Paradox]

Yeah who saves up money for their future anyway

People that would like to retire and at least maintain close to their standard of living instead of working until they drop dead?

 

[Shogun610]

People that would like to retire and at least maintain close to their standard of living instead of working until they drop dead?

uh yah if you’re of retiring age lol …. then it’s called wealth management. But you still have to save to get to that point.

I was referring to the previous post about hoarding money. Whatever not gonna change your opinion and you won’t mine atelast respect it. Peace

 

[Paradox]

uh yah if you’re of retiring age lol …. then it’s called wealth management. But you still have to save to get to that point.

I was referring to the previous post about hoarding money. Whatever not gonna change your opinion and you won’t mine atelast respect it. Peace

Thought I was agreeing with your sarcasm unless I misinterpreted your meaning?

Yes, you need to start saving while you're young enough and time is on your side to let it build wealth. You don't start saving when your close to retirement age. By then it's too late. I suppose it is sorta like hoarding money to use later.

 

[Scorpius]

Not saying you shouldn't save for retirement, but assuming you'll make it to retirement alive is another level of foolishness unto itself. If you can save and have money left over, "go buy that tree dang nabbit you only live once"

 

[AcerAddict]

If you can save and have money left over, "go buy that tree dang nabbit you only live once"

This is oftentimes the approach I take, and why I mentioned earlier that with most hobbies, it's OK to spend on them as long as your financial responsibilities are taken care of first. That last part is the key whether you're buying a $500 leather jacket, a $10k tree from Ryan, a $100k restored Mustang at a Mecum auction, or pretty much any other luxury thing.

At my age, it's true that I could buy a 10 year old tree, invest another 20 years in it, and have something really nice by the time I'm about to hit 65. In fact, I have some young nursery stock now that I will get to develop over the next few decades, God-willing. However, I could die in a car accident tomorrow, which is why I'm OK with spending some money on nicer trees that someone else spent the time and effort growing and styling so that I can enjoy them sooner than later.

 

[Scorpius]

This is oftentimes the approach I take, and why I mentioned earlier that with most hobbies, it's OK to spend on them as long as your financial responsibilities are taken care of first. That last part is the key whether you're buying a $500 leather jacket, a $10k tree from Ryan, a $100k restored Mustang at a Mecum auction, or pretty much any other luxury thing.

At my age, it's true that I could buy a 10 year old tree, invest another 20 years in it, and have something really nice by the time I'm about to hit 65. In fact, I have some young nursery stock now that I will get to develop over the next few decades, God-willing. However, I could die in a car accident tomorrow, which is why I'm OK with spending some money on nicer trees that someone else spent the time and effort growing and styling so that I can enjoy them sooner than later.

Guy I worked with passed away two weeks into retirement. Massive heart attack. He obsessed over his 401k. Never got to enjoy all that money he fussed over his entire working life.

 

[StPaddy]

I have a question for all you who would prefer to have a tree of your own reach "Mirai quality" due to your own time and effort as opposed to spending a large chunk of money and buying one during Ryan's sales.

If we were talking about classic cars instead of bonsai trees, would you still have the same opinion? Would you rather get a rusted shell out of a barn and spend three or four years and thousands of hours (and dollars) restoring it yourself, or would you instead prefer to go to a classic car dealership/auction and just buy one that someone else restored?

I'm not being snarky here either. I would genuinely like to know if the subject was different, if the opinions would be the same. It's the whole "built vs. bought" argument, so to speak.

With cars I have done it both ways. Much prefer to buy finished or nearly so. Saves a lot of time money and headaches. But nowadays I’d rather do something other than lay under an old ford lining up clutch splines…or playing with carbs. Trees I’m perhaps the same way…maybe because of all the old cars I used to fuss with. I’d rather buy better material that is easier to get where I hope it will go…or is already there. Though most of those mirai trees are above my pay grade.
I should add that I no longer drive an old car. I like modern conveniences. Though sometimes I borrow an Alfa Romeo I helped my father restore. Just for kicks and to keep it limber as he has cancer and is on the way out and can’t really keep it up anymore.

 

[BobbyLane]

I think the difference is that many of us don't have the mechanical know how to build / restore a car, or perhaps the money either.

Growing out your own tree would most likely be cheaper money wise, not so time wise.
However the likelihood of growing out your tree from prebonsai stock into something like the yamadori that Ryan works with is very unlikely. However taking nursery stock like what he has done and turning it into something similar is possible if you know what you are doing. If you're lucky enough to be able to collect yamadori, you can certainly develop trees similar to those that Ryan has, again if you know what you are doing.

For myself, I'd neither restore nor buy a classic car. I have my one vehicle that serves me well and does what it's designed to do so no need for another one to maintain and insure.

Paying 5 to 10K for a tree is simply out of the question.

Pretty much this!
Id buy the car if I had the money, I know nothing about building or restoring cars, but sure if I was a mechanic then restoring n building could be a hobby, maybe id prefer to restore the shell if I enjoyed that part of the hobby, and wanted to save a few dollars.
I love working on raw tree material though, its more fun for me than waking up and just maintaining someones finished work on my bench. Give me the blank tree canvas any day.

btw while i highly rate mirais work on conifers, their deciduous styling work to me is just 'ok' and definitely not out of my capabilities, so again id prefer the raw stock to put my own stamp on. Also, many of those trees, especially the deciduous ones havnt been in training by mirai for more than say 2-5 years, and are still pretty raw, so again that developmental phase is definitely within my grasp.
I also dont think some of the trees are worth the asking price, another reason id prefer the raw stock at a cut of the price.