Orion_metalhead
Masterpiece
The quantity of output doesn't determine the quality of art. One single masterpiece is no less a masterpiece.
Art vs Craft
- Thread starter Joe Dupre'
- Start date
The quantity of output doesn't determine the quality of art. One single masterpiece is no less a masterpiece.
Maloghurst
Chumono
It must be hard to be so humble.
penumbra
Imperial Masterpiece
I don't understand this reply.
Maloghurst
Chumono
This true and also the quality of art doesn’t make something art or not. Art is art good or bad.
Maloghurst
Chumono
Based on your statement you are an artist. Like it or not. To say someone thinks highly of themselves because they believe they are an artist is self righteous and condescending. Bad art is still art.
penumbra
Imperial Masterpiece
OK Then, didn't realize we were using our Funk & Wagnalls. Obviously you art right.
Try running a gallery.
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
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Yes, the "it's Art when the Artist says it is Art" is not a very satisfying resolution. But it is the final fall out of the question as posed as far back in time as 1917. We don't have to re-hash a century of art criticism here on this forum.
One can, if you like, but I'm out of here.
One can, if you like, but I'm out of here.
penumbra
Imperial Masterpiece
To be fair I did say it was degrading. I am out of here too.
Anthony
Imperial Masterpiece
@Dav4,
please note, that my friends are mostly folk who think and do.
I am a practical man so when I helped my brother-in-llaw go solar,
I was there nailing, wiring , and I also pass by and maintain.
If I can, I also make. Saves cash.
I am cheap.
If that is what is upsetting you
Trees down here are from seed / cuttings or airlayers.
Once health has been mastered, a design is drawn and seeds / cutttings
etc. are grown ibto the design.
Grow and clip requires art training and so at Bonsai meetings
K and I let our 3 wiring masters take over,
Often K will take 3 or so trees for sacrificial defoliation.
When the last new members visited they made two comments-
[1] Where are the wires ?
[2] The trees are all different.
Wiring is best for those who cannot design, nor have any interest
in learning to design. It goes well with rote.
Wu Yee Sun was known as a Scholar Farmer, he used Grpw
and Clip.
We spend no time on discussion of Art and craft with regards to
bpnsai. It is a hobby for mental relaxation as the ancient Chinese
did it.
By the way don't take any of this harshly, you are a fun guy to
tease, as Sifu's [Adair ] friend, who also get's teased.
Good Day
Anthony
.
please note, that my friends are mostly folk who think and do.
I am a practical man so when I helped my brother-in-llaw go solar,
I was there nailing, wiring , and I also pass by and maintain.
If I can, I also make. Saves cash.
I am cheap.
If that is what is upsetting you
Trees down here are from seed / cuttings or airlayers.
Once health has been mastered, a design is drawn and seeds / cutttings
etc. are grown ibto the design.
Grow and clip requires art training and so at Bonsai meetings
K and I let our 3 wiring masters take over,
Often K will take 3 or so trees for sacrificial defoliation.
When the last new members visited they made two comments-
[1] Where are the wires ?
[2] The trees are all different.
Wiring is best for those who cannot design, nor have any interest
in learning to design. It goes well with rote.
Wu Yee Sun was known as a Scholar Farmer, he used Grpw
and Clip.
We spend no time on discussion of Art and craft with regards to
bpnsai. It is a hobby for mental relaxation as the ancient Chinese
did it.
By the way don't take any of this harshly, you are a fun guy to
tease, as Sifu's [Adair ] friend, who also get's teased.
Good Day
Anthony
.
Maloghurst
Chumono
Sorry if I offended you I don’t believe you are self righteous or condescending. I shouldn’t have used those terms. But I do consider myself an artist so that’s probably why I took a little offense.
I think it takes more humility to acknowledge that you are an artist then to never admit it and say that it’s egotistical to say you are.
Now if I said “I’m a great artist” that would be crazy!
Anthony
Imperial Masterpiece
Guys remember Winter Blah Blahs happens every year.
While for us it is cool and windy ------ happy times!!!
While for us it is cool and windy ------ happy times!!!
Anthony
Imperial Masterpiece
History decides who was an Artist or what is art.
While alive and kicking you can call yourself anything.
While alive and kicking you can call yourself anything.
Orion_metalhead
Masterpiece
100% true.
bwaynef
Masterpiece
We're not at this site hoping we get lucky and unintentionally make something that can be confused as art.
Orion_metalhead
Masterpiece
True, but arent the best trees designed not by us, but by our luck in finding a specimen with "potential".
Irregardless, I was approaching this topic in a general sense, not a specific sense. My background in media and creative outlets is such that there are often blurred lines between the perception of and reality of creativity, art, and skill.
Maloghurst
Chumono
I think some people confuse art and artist with master and masterpiece. History decides who are masters hence “Italian masters” “German masters” etc. Anyone who practices an art form for an extended period of time is an artist.
If my 4 year old daughter makes a painting it is art! Is she an artist no!
If my daughter makes paintings for the next ten years everyday then yes she is an artist.
I think some of you place to high a value on the word artist and art.
Bolero
Omono
Bonsai is Craft, Great Bonsai is Great Craft, Crummy Bonsai is Crummy Craft........
Art is just a Subjective view of Craft...……..
Art is just a Subjective view of Craft...……..
Bolero
Omono
Anthony... if the tree grows out of the design, I suggest that it’s caretaker is not a “Bonsai Master”!
There is more to bonsai than “creation” of a small tree. Ongoing maintenance is just as important, maybe even more so. For a tree spends more of its lifetime in “maturity” than it does growing to maturity.
I suggest that if the bonsai artist doesn’t have the skills to maintain the tree, his craftsmanship is lacking.
Take what I just said with a grain of salt... sometimes a Shohin simply outgrows being a Shohin when the trunk and nebari simply cannot fit into a Shohin sized pot anymore.
Clip and grow is a valid technique.
If you haven’t ever seen “art” performed on a wired bonsai, then you haven’t seen very many good bonsai.
Anthony, your IGNORANCE is astounding.
I’m not saying you’re not intelligent. But there are many aspects of bonsai of which you have no knowledge.
Your presumptions are often absurd.
Sure, you enjoy teasing me. But, the misinformation that you spread is toxic.
I have trees I grow and train by clip and grow. I have some trained by wiring. I have some where I do both. Why artificially limit the tools at your disposal?
By the way, clip and grow isn’t any more art than it is a skill. A “craft”, if you will.
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