Azalea Picture Identification Thread

[Deep Sea Diver]

Interesting.....so it will take several years for the blossoms to mature to produce the patterns. I wish Mark still had access to the site to hear what he had to say.

As always, the answer in bonsai and it seems in azaleas too... is it depends.... shoot selection, horticulture and cultivar at least in this case.

Mark and I have both corresponded with Jim. we are all members of the ASA. I’ve forwarded the note to Mark already. This appears to merely confirm what we have been discussing over the years...

cheers
DSD sends

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

...btw the way, I’m not sure it would be termed as the ‘the time to take the bossums to mature‘ as much as “the time it takes for all the variations of the possible mutations, or ‘jumping genes‘ (transposons) to occur and appear”.

cheers
DSD sends

 

[Pitoon]

...btw the way, I’m not sure it would be termed as the ‘the time to take the bossums to mature‘ as much as “the time it takes for all the variations of the possible mutations, or ‘jumping genes‘ (transposons) to occur and appear”.

cheers
DSD sends

It's a known fact that if you want to reproduce a multi patterned azalea, you have to collect cuttings from the branches that produce the multi patterns to carry on the mutation. If the cuttings already have the mutation(s) we want to continue on why wouldn't it produce multi patterned flowers the next season? This is why I mentioned 'mature'.......it's the same as if you were to take JM cuttings from a JM already producing the mature foliage type. Once those cuttings root and push out their first flush the foliage type will revert back to the juvenile form. Same as with junipers.....take cuttings when they are producing the scale type foliage, those cuttings root and they revert back to the juvenile needle form. In both cases it takes a couple seasons for the foliage to revert back to the mature form.

.............now by all means I'm not a scientist, I'm just a crazy nut that enjoys propagation. So if JM's and junipers and other species can revert their foliage back and forth from mature to juvenile back to mature......would it be no different for flowers?

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Hmm…. If I knew the exact answer to that question, I’d likely be breeding Satsukis for a living, instead of worrying which cuttings to take for this years propagation to get true this type results!!

Also maples are not azaleas, and leaves patterns are not flower patterns, particularly in Satsukis, which have up to six variations of flowers on one plant…. Now that I say that I don’t know if there is variation on flowers in specific Maples either.

My guess is that genetic patterns take time to show when it involves transposons, which involve spontaneously jumping genetic material, which jumps in and out of specific sites for various reasons, especially exposure to UV radiation.

I called Jim at Nuccio’s for some practical insight and he says he hasn’t looked at it those results closely, but by three years, which is saleable size, he says the stock he deals with should show all patterns…. given proper cutting selection… which is a big if for folks like us!

That’s the best answer I can give for now. If I find out something else, I will relay it here.

Best
DSD sends

 

[Pitoon]

Hmm…. If I knew the exact answer to that question, I’d likely be breeding Satsukis for a living, instead of worrying which cuttings to take for this years propagation to get true this type results!!

Also maples are not azaleas, and leaves patterns are not flower patterns, particularly in Satsukis, which have up to six variations of flowers on one plant…. Now that I say that I don’t know if there is variation on flowers in specific Maples either.

My guess is that genetic patterns take time to show when it involves transposons, which involve spontaneously jumping genetic material, which jumps in and out of specific sites for various reasons, especially exposure to UV radiation.

I called Jim at Nuccio’s for some practical insight and he says he hasn’t looked at it those results closely, but by three years, which is saleable size, he says the stock he deals with should show all patterns…. given proper cutting selection… which is a big if for folks like us!

That’s the best answer I can give for now. If I find out something else, I will relay it here.

Best
DSD sends

Interesting stuff for sure. Too bad Nuccio's is on the west coast. I would visit them in a heart beat if they were on the east coast.

 

[bunjin]

Just from a statistical standpoint, of course it takes time for a plant to produce enough blooms to show a full range of variants. In regards to propagation by cuttings as noted by Naka, Ota, & Rokkaku (and others), certain categories of cultivars are very particular to the branch from which the cuttings are taken, some are not. It is difficult to make general statements because of the large number of cultivars out there. Of the very small number of multi-color cultivars I have reproduced, "Juko" is very reliable as it is a white center and unfussy about which branches are selected. It also never fails to produce the full range of patterns/colors as soon as the plant can produce enough blooms. After years of growth, other cultivars have yet to show the full range. I think that if one is located in a temperate climate, and wanted to make this process as short as possible, I would put the rooted cuttings in the ground as soon as possible for maximum growth.

 

[Pitoon]

Just from a statistical standpoint, of course it takes time for a plant to produce enough blooms to show a full range of variants. In regards to propagation by cuttings as noted by Naka, Ota, & Rokkaku (and others), certain categories of cultivars are very particular to the branch from which the cuttings are taken, some are not. It is difficult to make general statements because of the large number of cultivars out there. Of the very small number of multi-color cultivars I have reproduced, "Juko" is very reliable as it is a white center and unfussy about which branches are selected. It also never fails to produce the full range of patterns/colors as soon as the plant can produce enough blooms. After years of growth, other cultivars have yet to show the full range. I think that if one is located in a temperate climate, and wanted to make this process as short as possible, I would put the rooted cuttings in the ground as soon as possible for maximum growth.

You're absolutely correct....you won't see much if the azalea only produced 2 or 3 flowers.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Concerning multipatterned azaleas taking time to show all variations.

Mark says “ As for Jim's answers, yes I would have given exactly the same ones.”. and “But it is definitely true that plants need to age to gain patterns.”

He goes on to give examples from his own experience, including one: “Talking about patterns slow to emerge, a seedling which foliage I really like but whose flowers are kinda generic had a few of these flowers this year for the first time:

Just a small white center. White centers are notorious for not appearing on younger plants. This seedling was sown in 2010, but this year is the first year flowering in a spot where it has plenty of space. It used to be crowded in by sibling plants.“

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[bunjin]

Just from a statistical standpoint, of course it takes time for a plant to produce enough blooms to show a full range of variants. In regards to propagation by cuttings as noted by Naka, Ota, & Rokkaku (and others), certain categories of cultivars are very particular to the branch from which the cuttings are taken, some are not. It is difficult to make general statements because of the large number of cultivars out there. Of the very small number of multi-color cultivars I have reproduced, "Juko" is very reliable as it is a white center and unfussy about which branches are selected. It also never fails to produce the full range of patterns/colors as soon as the plant can produce enough blooms. After years of growth, other cultivars have yet to show the full range. I think that if one is located in a temperate climate, and wanted to make this process as short as possible, I would put the rooted cuttings in the ground as soon as possible for maximum growth.

I would to add that in my experience the Satsuki with larger flowers have a much lower flower density. Therefore they seem be the slowest to show all the patterns and this should be take in consideration when selecting a cultivar.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

View attachment 379539
One last variation of this one.

What is the cultivar name?

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

'Yata no Sai'
Plant was purchased 8 years ago. These are 2021 blooms. It's in a Yang Lan YiXing pot.




same plant 2016 'Yata no Sai'



Because flowers can vary depending on age of the plant and vary year to year due to cultivation differences, I try to post images from more than one year if I have them.

 

[Bonsaidoorguy]

What is the cultivar name?

Ukigumo-no-tsuki. I guess a reply to a reply of my own post doesn't work too good.

 

[Bonsaidoorguy]

Another picture of Shukufuku showing a variety of colors.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Ukigumo-no-tsuki. I guess a reply to a reply of my own post doesn't work too good.

You had a separate post of a flower with no name, though with scrolling back, I should have figured out that 'Ukigumo no tsuki' was the most recent previous name you used. In this thread, we should be careful that with each post, the name of the cultivar should be repeated in the post even if an "add on" to a previous post. Especially if other posts, about other cultivars were made in between.

 

[Bonsaidoorguy]

You had a separate post of a flower with no name, though with scrolling back, I should have figured out that 'Ukigumo no tsuki' was the most recent previous name you used. In this thread, we should be careful that with each post, the name of the cultivar should be repeated in the post even if an "add on" to a previous post. Especially if other posts, about other cultivars were made in between.

My bad. Won't happen again.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

'Harris Fascination'
Note some of the flowers have 6 petals, most have only 5 lobes. Petals are fused about a third or so of the way. A big flower, around 3 inches diameter.

6 June 2021








2020

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

Hi
I have many favourite Kurumes, and Satsuki are almost impossible to find or buy. I have seen a few “Robin Hill” cultivars, but they aren’t really Satsuki.
I have two to share, as they are totally different from the usual colours.
Kurume ‘Asawa’

Charles

 

[KiwiPlantGuy]

Next is a Kurume also named ‘Starburst’ or in Japanese it is ‘Sui Yohi’, also is a colour chimera of Kirin.

These two are from 2 years ago, so they have filled somewhat.
Charles

 

[Garyh550]

Two imported exposed root satsuki azaleas in full bloom with many flowers all due to the nightmare of deadheading the flower seeds. This is where you have to have the patience if you want a lot of flowers for next year.

 

[Pitoon]

Two imported exposed root satsuki azaleas in full bloom with many flowers all due to the nightmare of deadheading the flower seeds. This is where you have to have the patience if you want a lot of flowers for next year.

Those are nice, but this thread is for azalea flower/cultivar identification not about maintenance on the trees. Keep each post with pictures specific to a cultivar to prevent any confusion, thanks.

Pitoon