Bald cypress Air layer problems

[Timbo]

I air layered a 2" trunk Bald Cypress with bagged moss over 5 weeks ago, no roots that i can tell. Today i noticed above the air layer the foliage was wilting/curling, and all curled at the tops of the apex. I would say foliage is 65/35 above the air layer. It has been putting on new branches below the air layer and the bottom seems healthy.
I can post of pic if need be but was wondering if anyone has similar experience. Maybe the roots can't support the top all of the sudden even though it's been growing all over the tree. Is it possible it is trying to feed off the air-layer roots and it's not able to keep the foliage from drying out? FYI, the bag always has condensation on it and has never dried out.

Really, this is my only thoughts unless pest related but then wouldn't the whole tree be affected? I find it hard to believe the roots can't support the foliage as it has been doing fine for 5 weeks....too much sun? It was cloudy most of the day. I dunno.

 

[sorce]

Clouds come with wind round here...

Was it windy too?

Sorce

 

[Cypress187]

Pictures, we love them. Maybe the girdle was too deep / not deep enough? Or it was too moist?

 

[sorce]

Pictures, we love them

Um, yeah, we do....where the hell are yours!?

Sorce

 

[Cypress187]

Um, yeah, we do....where the hell are yours!?Sorce

Um, yeah, well.. I will post them eventually but atm I'm still struggling with keeping them alive, I don't want to posts sticks in a pot and ask what to do with them. I first want some more established plants I know are strong before I ask the help of u Imperial Masterpieces (I don't want to waste your time).

 

[rockm]

I air layered a 2" trunk Bald Cypress with bagged moss over 5 weeks ago, no roots that i can tell. Today i noticed above the air layer the foliage was wilting/curling, and all curled at the tops of the apex. I would say foliage is 65/35 above the air layer. It has been putting on new branches below the air layer and the bottom seems healthy.
I can post of pic if need be but was wondering if anyone has similar experience. Maybe the roots can't support the top all of the sudden even though it's been growing all over the tree. Is it possible it is trying to feed off the air-layer roots and it's not able to keep the foliage from drying out? FYI, the bag always has condensation on it and has never dried out.

Really, this is my only thoughts unless pest related but then wouldn't the whole tree be affected? I find it hard to believe the roots can't support the foliage as it has been doing fine for 5 weeks....too much sun? It was cloudy most of the day. I dunno.

Pretty simple, if the air layer has no roots, then the foliage is dying of, along with the air layer. Growth below the air layer has nothing to do with what is above it. If you have strong growth below the air layer, it's more evidence the tree has adapted to losing the air layered growth and is moving to replace it below your work.

Air layers are not as straightforward as they seem. They can and do fail. You could try misting the air layer, but at this point, it's most likely dead. Live and learn...

 

[Timbo]

Clouds come with wind round here...

Was it windy too?

Sorce

It has been a little windy, and not much rain. I water it everyday. Even thought about submerging it in water but given how well it's been growing both above and below, i've just been sticking to what i was doing so far. I did move it yesterday out of full sun near a wall and it's getting mostly morning/early afternoon sun. Maybe that will protect it from the wind.

It's a shame if i lose it, may not be much but it would make a curvy twin trunk.
I'd learn from it if i knew what i was doing wrong or if it just died for no reason. This is the first set of trees i did with moss, i usually do a pot or some kind sand/peat mix that works well. It is heavy and needs more watering that's why i've been trying moss this year.

Posting a pic soon.

 

[Timbo]

Pictures, we love them. Maybe the girdle was too deep / not deep enough? Or it was too moist?

I made sure i cleaned off all the orange/off color layer that appeared after the air hit it as i do with all the air layers. It looked pretty clean to me, and it got a little air to dry anything left over before i rapped it. Hard to get pics of the actual layer though unless i give into the idea it's gone. I will try to look.

 

[Timbo]

you can see both top and bottom here.
BTW, the needles (if you can call them that) still feel soft even on the top where it's really curly.

 

[Timbo]

Hard to see the upper trunk with all the foliage.

Looks okay to me, would have likes some roots by now though.
Found one earwig in there which seems to be a good sign up here. They seem to always show up during root development. I had a dozen or more on my last successful air layer.
I covered it back up and hoping it will recover in a less stressful area....wishful thinking maybe.

 

[Timbo]

Oops, one more....you can see the bottom here. Both top and bottom foliage were growing before they started drying out.

 

[rockm]

That curling foliage is a sad sign that the leaves are losing moisture fast and it's not being replaced. Don't know what to tell you. Get it out of the sun. mist it, but from my experience when BC foliage looks like that, it's crispy green in a day or two.

 

[sorce]

Bro....did you train a rat to gnaw off your top cut?

I don't know if it matters horticulturally, but if I was a root....

I wouldn't grow from there...

Sorce

 

[M. Frary]

How long have you had that tree?

 

[Timbo]

This spring. I waited a few months to get more roots and growth, why i did it so late. Either way i was chopping it as it was too long and would have been a weird reverse taper where the twin trunks could have been on the new air layer. I made sure it had foliage below the air layer. Maybe i needed to wait longer until spring of next year.
Not really sure whats wrong with the cut, the bark is thick and easy to peel...it's hard to get through that without peeling it up the tree or tearing out all the roots in the pot. I spent quite a bit of time to make sure it was cut off and no pieces of the cambium were left. The callus has come down. Also the spot in the last pic is a knot from a branch i tried to clean off the best i could.
I doubt it matters anyway if you leave the water flow and make sure the cambium layer is off. I'm no pro at air layer either, comment is more discouraging than helpful but so be it.

Yeah i'm afraid it's gone too, just hope the bottom stay alive from whatever is going on.
As far as the callus, that is what you want on a BC right? I can't seem to find many BC callus photos.

 

[Dav4]

From what I can see, your layer was done correctly, and the callus shows that. I suspect without being able to prove it that the layered portion got hit with a lot of hot and perhaps dry wind that may have exceeded the new root system from keeping up with transpiration. I agree with Rockm to get into more shade and mist the foliage frequently if you can. Even if you lose the foliage, I'd keep the moss wet into the fall...cypresses are tough and it could push another set of leaves. Good luck

 

[Timbo]

Ok, thank you....i put it under a tree, it gets a little dappled sun and hopefully in less wind.
Of course go figure my thermometer says 102+ in the sun today....hot dry 32% humidity day for up here.

 

[0soyoung]

Of course go figure my thermometer says 102+ in the sun today....hot dry 32% humidity day for up here.

Well, that is a bit of a problem. Trees don't grow at temperatures above roughly 95F. Most importantly, roots don't grow at temperatures over 95F! This is likely why your foliage is drooping.

So, grab a meat thermometer probe and sick it in the pot - make sure the roots stay below 95F. Watering will do it. Keeping a black plastic pot (or whatever you've got it in) out of the sun will also help. You can also go so far as to cover the pot and soil with a light colored towel that you keep wet = a swamp cooler for roots.

 

[rockm]

Well, that is a bit of a problem. Trees don't grow at temperatures above roughly 95F. Most importantly, roots don't grow at temperatures over 95F! This is likely why your foliage is drooping.

So, grab a meat thermometer probe and sick it in the pot - make sure the roots stay below 95F. Watering will do it. Keeping a black plastic pot (or whatever you've got it in) out of the sun will also help. You can also go so far as to cover the pot and soil with a light colored towel that you keep wet = a swamp cooler for roots.

And don't get to attached emotionally to the air layer. It is most likely a goner.

 

[Timbo]

Well, that is a bit of a problem. Trees don't grow at temperatures above roughly 95F. Most importantly, roots don't grow at temperatures over 95F! This is likely why your foliage is drooping.

So, grab a meat thermometer probe and sick it in the pot - make sure the roots stay below 95F. Watering will do it. Keeping a black plastic pot (or whatever you've got it in) out of the sun will also help. You can also go so far as to cover the pot and soil with a light colored towel that you keep wet = a swamp cooler for roots.

It's under that now, probably in the low 80's range since i put in in semi shade. It's in a brown pot...better than black i suppose.
I was thinking awhile ago about buying some shade cloth to cover a few of my pots since they seem to dry out fast.

And don't get to attached emotionally to the air layer. It is most likely a goner.

I'm not, just thought it would make a unique bonsai. I don't see many twin trunk Bald Cypress trees. I would be a little more annoyed if i lose the whole tree from it.
I would just rather understand the reason for next time, maybe it did too hot/windy on my bench yesterday. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be dried out, i water once maybe twice a day on the BC trees if we get these drought spells.
Anyways, thanks for the replies.