Bjorn Apprenticeship

[one_bonsai]

I don't understand the mentality of harshness when learning bonsai. It's like 5 years of military boot camp to learn how to care and style bonsai. I find this odd. Are there that many people wasting these artist's time that they have to make it so hard to weed out the chaff?

I saw what Ryan at Mirai went through in Japan and it disgusted me the way they treated him like some sub human person.

I thought exactly the same thing. It's bizarre. In Japan it's a cultural thing, but come on they're pot plants!

 

[Dogestoevsky]

Very good points! Thanks for giving me the opposite view.

I am not american, and indeed there are many points of US culture I dislike (including overworking). I work in tech, and I always try to embrace the positives, as we are heavy influenced by it as you can imagine. And very often, I see people mimic aspects that stem from a smaller safety need or extreme individualism, just because the big boys do it. When I learn about japanese culture, I see many things I admire and I am jealous about, and many things that look rigid and dated. In my eyes this looked like 2.

And I felt that is what Bjorn was doing here, with a bit of 'I did it' bias, and we are justifying it because it's exotic or works for them. I might be wrong!

For sure— I didn’t mean to suggest that I’m on board with physical discipline, humiliation, hazing, etc. All I mean to say is that fulfilling apprenticeships exist in the US already… they just tend to naturally select for those with privilege, and you can probably still complain to HR

 

[ShadyStump]

For sure— I didn’t mean to suggest that I’m on board with physical discipline, humiliation, hazing, etc. All I mean to say is that fulfilling apprenticeships exist in the US already… they just tend to naturally select for those with privilege, and you can probably still complain to HR

I would say this is the issue with the modern apprenticeship/internship practices, and why so many people frown on them. They often are used as a means to get free labor.
When I graduated college with a major in mass communications and went looking for work in the field, I found that since the great recession all the career starting positions had been redubbed internships. They all required a bachelor's degree and experience, all were full time, all doing the same work, but now they didn't pay, or at best paid minimum wage. I kept working food service another 3 years until a friend pushed me to try applying for a position in education.

So, yeah, they are absolutely used to get free labor, and favor those with preexisting wealth.
But in a niche like bonsai, they're a rare and amazing opportunity.

 

[Njyamadori]

Wasn't @Njyamadori talking about looking for an apprenticeship a little while back?
Where has that kid gone to anyway?

Don’t worry I still lurk around here , just can’t find any good threads anymore . Definitely will hear a lot of me this spring

I actually got a chance to talk to Bjorn and Cameron(Apprentice) through Email and Facebook . Cameron sounded excited to talk about being a Apprentice at Esei En . Bjorn was very nice and genuine and sent me some iotgawa cuttings . He also mentioned to message him in the future if I wanted to be an apprentice. So I definitely will hit him up in 4 years if it’s something I’m interested in .

 

[ShadyStump]

Don’t worry I still lurk around here , just can’t find any good threads anymore . Definitely will hear a lot of me this spring

I actually got a chance to talk to Bjorn and Cameron(Apprentice) through Email and Facebook . Cameron sounded excited to talk about being a Apprentice at Esei En . Bjorn was very nice and genuine and sent me some iotgawa cuttings . He also mentioned to message him in the future if I wanted to be an apprentice. So I definitely will hit him up in 4 years if it’s something I’m interested in .

Sounds awesome
I'm a bit anxious for spring this year too. Allot of projects on my mind.

 

[leatherback]

I see the job description as weeding out the unserious candidates up front with dose of reality.

This is how I see it.

If you read the description:

Showing guests around the garden
- Wiring and styling bonsai
- Assisting Bjorn in wiring and styling bonsai
- Managing the nursery operations when Bjorn is away (sometimes for extended periods)
- Pruning and maintenance of bonsai and the landscaping
- Self-study (limited verbal teaching will be conducted)

I would say that a good intern will have plenty of responsibility & will get plenty of one-on-one time. There is no way he will leave running the nursery up to someone he does not have complete faith in. The only way to reach that is to see that the person can actually do the work, correct when things are done in a manner not fitting his expectations & standards .

Will most of the work be boring labour? Probably. But in the end you will know every single detail of the business (Except perhaps the financial details). Basically you have a bonsai business degree. Compare that to a 2+3 = 5 year BSc + MSc in whatever paying 10K+ per year in fees and having to find a way to pay for your living, it is not that bad of a deal.

If this would have popped up when I was younger, still at the start of my professional life, I could easily have been tempted. Just thinking back of 2 half year periods working research projects for free as part of my graduation without any pay..

 

[sorce]

Inflation and taxes make getting paid just more work and worry.

#barterlife
#cryptopostsolarflare

Sorce

 

[SouthernMaple]

So I know the guy he picked, he's in the Blue Ridge club, good guy, hard worker but relatively new to bonsai compared to the people on here.

 

[ShadyStump]

So I know the guy he picked, he's in the Blue Ridge club, good guy, hard worker but relatively new to bonsai compared to the people on here.

It might be super awesome or something if someone could convince him to make an account here and start a sort of blog type thread to enterta... I mean inform us.

 

[roberthu]

If he’s serious about the posting, then I have to say he’s moving exact the Japanese apprenticeship model to the US. And I don’t know if it is going to work out like he thinks. The culture here is very different here if not opposite. I understand these requirements are quite common in Japan or China cause one, the masters are basically giving you the opportunity it’s to learn from him and subsequently compete with him. And 2nd, the bonsai market is large enough that once you graduate, you can make a decent living and potentially become a celebrity. I don’t think the US market is that mature yet.

 

[chicago1980]

Congratulations to the person.

 

[Shogun610]

If he’s serious about the posting, then I have to say he’s moving exact the Japanese apprenticeship model to the US. And I don’t know if it is going to work out like he thinks. The culture here is very different here if not opposite. I understand these requirements are quite common in Japan or China cause one, the masters are basically giving you the opportunity it’s to learn from him and subsequently compete with him. And 2nd, the bonsai market is large enough that once you graduate, you can make a decent living and potentially become a celebrity. I don’t think the US market is that mature yet.

I think you’re forgetting the collaborations and work that this person can do outside of the US too.

 

[roberthu]

I think you’re forgetting the collaborations and work that this person can do outside of the US too.

It’s a possibility. But a slim one. Japan by far is the most influential market in the world and I don’t know how receptive the Japanese bonsai industry is to westerners. We are talking about dedicating the best part of someone’s life making little to no money while have no clear future career path. The bonsai market in the US is very spread out which makes it very difficult to build a business. I think Ryan really got something right by providing a subscription service so he can reach the audiences and market easily. I think Bjorn is trying something similar but I don’t know much about his or his business. But I heard he’s still traveling around to give lectures and work on others trees. I don’t think Ryan is doing as much of that which makes me believe his broadcasting business is doing pretty well.
At the end of the day, many people went to Japan for apprenticeship. Not everyone came back and made living out of the profession. And only a few became well known to the broader public. With the conditions Bjorn posted, I don’t know how many people will find it attractive.

 

[Colorado]

With the conditions Bjorn posted, I don’t know how many people will find it attractive.

Apparently there were enough

 

[Shogun610]

It’s a possibility. But a slim one. Japan by far is the most influential market in the world and I don’t know how receptive the Japanese bonsai industry is to westerners. We are talking about dedicating the best part of someone’s life making little to no money while have no clear future career path. The bonsai market in the US is very spread out which makes it very difficult to build a business. I think Ryan really got something right by providing a subscription service so he can reach the audiences and market easily. I think Bjorn is trying something similar but I don’t know much about his or his business. But I heard he’s still traveling around to give lectures and work on others trees. I don’t think Ryan is doing as much of that which makes me believe his broadcasting business is doing pretty well.
At the end of the day, many people went to Japan for apprenticeship. Not everyone came back and made living out of the profession. And only a few became well known to the broader public. With the conditions Bjorn posted, I don’t know how many people will find it attractive.

Are you aware how connected Bjorn is to Japan along with other professionals? I think it’s a great opportunity

 

[dbonsaiw]

Some funny posts here. For those who seem unsure, slavery is an involuntary thing. So regardless of what Bjorn is or isn't paying, you always have the choice to simply not volunteer. This isn't slavery - hard stop. I've had many unpaid internships throughout college and grad school. They taught me little if anything and I did it for no reason other than resume building. It is what it is. Choose a path in life and follow it. Earning our stripes isn't evil. If you want to talk about shit work, speak to some plumbing apprentices.

That said, this old-school type of education is counterproductive, IMHO. Much of it boils down to "I had to do it, so you do too". Doctors coming up 40 years ago pulled double all-night surgery shifts. That's not good for anyone, but their mentors had to do it, so now it was their turn. Same for lawyers. Same for soldiers.

I would imagine, however, that the benefit to people like Bjorn in having apprentices is far different than lawyers, for example. Training a lawyer is an investment the firm makes, because if the lawyer performs well this is an asset the firm wants to keep. I'm not sure how many people spend the rest of their careers or any substantial time with Bjorn after interning for him. Rather, they move on and become the competition. What he gets is free labor in return for an education that cannot be received everywhere. Hell, he pays just as much as we earn trying to learn bonsai on this group.

 

[roberthu]

Are you aware how connected Bjorn is to Japan along with other professionals? I think it’s a great opportunity

I know he is well connected in Japan. And his Japanese is pretty good. Is the apprentice going to be as good? And is Bjorn’s connection going to help in the apprentice’s future? Bjorn is young still. Is he really looking for a strong candidate that is going to potentially compete with him in the future? Is he really going forward to share all the knowledge and connection? Ryan mentioned that in his 2nd year in Japan, he was the only functional apprentice left so the fail rate was pretty high. What are the other apprentice doing now? Are they all still bonsai professionals?
All I am trying to say is the mindset and culture in Japan is very different compared to in the US. Just because something has worked in Japan for hundreds of years doesn’t mean it’s going to work out the same in the US.

 

[PieterVE]

Wax on, wax off...

 

[Forestcat]

regarding laundry, not sure folks understand how large Bjorn actually is, just sayin…heard you have to wash his clothes by hand

I read the application and missed the part about doing laundry.

 

[TN_Jim]

I read the application and missed the part about doing laundry.

for sure, you have to do it with a rock and your own tears