Bjorn Bjorholm Speaks Out On Hedge Pruning

I suggest that perhaps you need to see the difference in person. As Bjorn says, you need to enlarge the photos to see the little bulges. Once you train your eye, it becomes impossible to not see them.

I think Bjorn is very brave to point this out. Michael Hagedorn took quite a bit of flack for taking on the “don’t pinch junipers” stance.

Both are just trying to raise the standard of bonsai here in the US.
I suspect I do. I have seen very few actual bonsai trees in person so I have nothing to base an opinion on except his tone which was pretty (understandably) defensive.

But, I do think it was a pretty sweeping statement with no examples of when it is relevant. For example, for trees in early development it makes perfect sense to use a hedging technique and the way he was explaining it it suggests that whomever is employing it would be leaving knuckles without tidying up later on. As WP said on one of his trees, he hedged it 3 times a year then employed more traditional bonsai techniques in autumn.

No one deserves flack for expressing an opinion though, but I can understand why being so dismissive of the methods of a large group of people will get their backs up.
 
He actually explains why he feels they are subpar and it is not just because it is not traditional or different. You can still don't have to agree with him but he does give reasons beyond it is not the way the Japanese do it.
Fair enough, but that’s not how I understood what he was saying. I thought he was quite open until he started talking about Japan, then the insinuation that their’s is only way to achieve the desired affect, forgetting that not everybody desires the same affect. Like I said, it was very interesting and I found it very educational as well.
 
I suspect I do. I have seen very few actual bonsai trees in person so I have nothing to base an opinion on except his tone which was pretty (understandably) defensive.

But, I do think it was a pretty sweeping statement with no examples of when it is relevant. For example, for trees in early development it makes perfect sense to use a hedging technique and the way he was explaining it it suggests that whomever is employing it would be leaving knuckles without tidying up later on. As WP said on one of his trees, he hedged it 3 times a year then employed more traditional bonsai techniques in autumn.

No one deserves flack for expressing an opinion though, but I can understand why being so dismissive of the methods of a large group of people will get their backs up.
Well, actually, when deciduous trees are in the development stage, a technique of “let grow, wire, let grow some more, remove wire, cut back, begin again” is best. When you “let grow”, you tend to get longer internodes. And therefore it’s important that you put in some curve using wire in those initial branch segments. The tree, on its own, grows straight shoots.

Peter Tea addresses this in his blog posts he made when he was an apprentice in Japan.
 
Well, actually, when deciduous trees are in the development stage, a technique of “let grow, wire, let grow some more, remove wire, cut back, begin again” is best. When you “let grow”, you tend to get longer internodes. And therefore it’s important that you put in some curve using wire in those initial branch segments. The tree, on its own, grows straight shoots.

Peter Tea addresses this in his blog posts he made when he was an apprentice in Japan.
I mean, to be honest, until I know what to look for and as a matter of honing techniques that’s pretty much the method I’ll employ. I can’t see hedging as much of a sensible learning curve for beginners anyway. Too many shortcuts without learning as much.
 
I hate that we still have these talks with really no speak of tree species and it's affect on the technique.

Surely some trees are easier to maintain using hedging than others.

Hell, I have 2 Benjamin Ficus, one would cause too much work and bulging with hedging, one would work better.

There is also a different length of time, that any tree can be left hedged, before the detail pruning.

Until people start talking in real actual terms.....

It just sounds like bitch ass complaining about humans due to feelings.

I can't bring myself to make the extra work I feel hedging causes, so I don't use the technique.

Clearly people still also don't fully understand the difference between "hedging", "hedging", and "making topiaries".

Yes 2 hedges.

Sorce
 
I hate that we still have these talks with really no speak of tree species and it's affect on the technique.

Surely some trees are easier to maintain using hedging than others.

Hell, I have 2 Benjamin Ficus, one would cause too much work and bulging with hedging, one would work better.

There is also a different length of time, that any tree can be left hedged, before the detail pruning.

Until people start talking in real actual terms.....

It just sounds like bitch ass complaining about humans due to feelings.

I can't bring myself to make the extra work I feel hedging causes, so I don't use the technique.

Clearly people still also don't fully understand the difference between "hedging", "hedging", and "making topiaries".

Yes 2 hedges.

Sorce
Actually, it comes down to “attention to detail”. Whether or not you care about the details. Oh, skip a step here, miss a step there, it might not matter too much. But, neglect too much might cause you to have to rework the entire tree!

That what was causing Boon so much distress on the root over rock trident. He had spent a decade getting the structure right, all the primaries and secondaries in place with taper, larger branches on the bottom and smaller branches up top, twigginess everywhere...

And suddenly, it’s getting ruined!

I’ll also go back to the famous horse trainer, Clinton Anderson. He had a 30 step program to train a horse to be very well trained, very responsive, and respectful. The system built up. Start at step 1, practice that until the horse (and the trainer!) were comfortable with it, then go to Step 2. An example of an exercise would be to teach the horse it’s ok if the trainer throws his lead rope over his back. The first time you do this, the horse might shy away. Just ignore that, when the horse settles down just do it again. And again. Eventually, the horse will figure out that it doesn’t hurt, and he’ll learn to just stand there. The next step might be to throw the lead rope around his legs. Step 3 might be yo wave it over his head like a lasso. You get it. Each step introduces sometime that the horse initially finds scary, but doesn’t harm him. So, Maybe try to master two Steps a day. Next day, do some Step 1 and 2 before going on to Step 3. You get it.

So, he held a 3 day clinic where participants were going to go thru all 30 steps in 3 days. An Intensive, if you will. I was an observer. In the clinic, it took them maybe 30 minutes to master each step. So, they took a break at lunch, and someone asked Clinton, “Gee, this is taking a long time. Which are the most important Steps, so I’ll do those and not have to do them all”.

Clinton: “Do you want to have a horse as soft and as easy to ride as my horse?”

Person: “Of course I do! That’s why I’m here!”

Clinton: “Then do every step. If there were a faster way, I’d teach it. I, too, want to train the horse the fastest way possible. But every Step introduces something new to the horse that’s important. Skipping steps won’t yield equivalent results”

I feel bonsai is similar. Sure It can be tedious at times. But it’s the sum total of all the little details that combine to have the effect we’re looking for.
 
Amen!

“attention to detail”

This 👆 is everything. Bjorn says, "zoom in on those pictures". This is the place folks stand outside the door of and argue.

I was thinking of a different one earlier, the world is rampant with them...these sayings, like "attention to detail" are so used, they don't even mean anything anymore, you need just say them.

Knowing the concept isn't being the concept.

Anyway, you can't argue with those outside the door.🤐
Leave em be!

Sorce
 
Actually, it comes down to “attention to detail”. Whether or not you care about the details. Oh, skip a step here, miss a step there, it might not matter too much. But, neglect too much might cause you to have to rework the entire tree!

That what was causing Boon so much distress on the root over rock trident. He had spent a decade getting the structure right, all the primaries and secondaries in place with taper, larger branches on the bottom and smaller branches up top, twigginess everywhere...

And suddenly, it’s getting ruined!

I’ll also go back to the famous horse trainer, Clinton Anderson. He had a 30 step program to train a horse to be very well trained, very responsive, and respectful. The system built up. Start at step 1, practice that until the horse (and the trainer!) were comfortable with it, then go to Step 2. An example of an exercise would be to teach the horse it’s ok if the trainer throws his lead rope over his back. The first time you do this, the horse might shy away. Just ignore that, when the horse settles down just do it again. And again. Eventually, the horse will figure out that it doesn’t hurt, and he’ll learn to just stand there. The next step might be to throw the lead rope around his legs. Step 3 might be yo wave it over his head like a lasso. You get it. Each step introduces sometime that the horse initially finds scary, but doesn’t harm him. So, Maybe try to master two Steps a day. Next day, do some Step 1 and 2 before going on to Step 3. You get it.

So, he held a 3 day clinic where participants were going to go thru all 30 steps in 3 days. An Intensive, if you will. I was an observer. In the clinic, it took them maybe 30 minutes to master each step. So, they took a break at lunch, and someone asked Clinton, “Gee, this is taking a long time. Which are the most important Steps, so I’ll do those and not have to do them all”.

Clinton: “Do you want to have a horse as soft and as easy to ride as my horse?”

Person: “Of course I do! That’s why I’m here!”

Clinton: “Then do every step. If there were a faster way, I’d teach it. I, too, want to train the horse the fastest way possible. But every Step introduces something new to the horse that’s important. Skipping steps won’t yield equivalent results”

I feel bonsai is similar. Sure It can be tedious at times. But it’s the sum total of all the little details that combine to have the effect we’re looking for.
Good story. I know a lot more about horses, than bonsai. My dad bought me a pregnant mare when I was 13, after years of nagging for a horse. I broke the colt myself and even taught him a few tricks. My dad had a friend called "Cowboy" that used to break wild horses in Montana or Wyoming back in the day, my dad asked him to help me break my colt. I put a bridle on him, and a saddle and Cowboy proclaimed "that's not a horse, it's goddamned dog". He didn't know I had been gradually getting him used to the bridle and saddle. Slow and steady. I need to learn that with my trees........
 
My 2 cents.....since this seems to have brought up Mr Pall's name in our little group here....
From what I've seen of Mr Pall's trees and Mr Bjorn's trees, its akin to comparing apples and oranges....
 
I listened to the podcast and found it to be very reasoned. I tried hedging on two of my trees this summer. It seemed to produce good results but now I'm going to look at them more closely and see if that was really the case.
 
Really, this is all about highly refined trees, which really exist in small numbers here in the US. And not a lot of us have seen very highly refined trees. As much as we think our Bonsai culture is moving up, I still think the level of trees here has a ways to go to be at that level of refinement. And unless you can see this in person you may not even be able to grasp the fundamental issues being talked of here. I do see this horticulturally in practice in my own work and can attest to the outcomes of each yearly growth on my own trees. Slow and individual pruning rather than sweeping fast overall pruning has produced better and more refined branch patterns. And really is a faster path to the end goal I thing.
 
Really, this is all about highly refined trees, which really exist in small numbers here in the US. And not a lot of us have seen very highly refined trees. As much as we think our Bonsai culture is moving up, I still think the level of trees here has a ways to go to be at that level of refinement. And unless you can see this in person you may not even be able to grasp the fundamental issues being talked of here. I do see this horticulturally in practice in my own work and can attest to the outcomes of each yearly growth on my own trees. Slow and individual pruning rather than sweeping fast overall pruning has produced better and more refined branch patterns. And really is a faster path to the end goal I thing.
Indeed. At the Nationals, Matt Ouwinga displayed a root over rock trident that was just incredible. It had been in Kokofu. It was still in leaf, however, and the leaves, tiny as a pinky fingernail, still obscured the view of the trunk and branch structure. Easily the most amazing trident I have ever personally seen.
 
@Adair M killer pot too that trident has!!

the tridents and kotohimes in matt’s garden are spectacular! i wish he shared more of his trees he’s very hesitant he told me, but i didn’t ask why

same for boon and suthin i guess - we have seen too little of their work!
 
@Adair M killer pot too that trident has!!

the tridents and kotohimes in matt’s garden are spectacular! i wish he shared more of his trees he’s very hesitant he told me, but i didn’t ask why

same for boon and suthin i guess - we have seen too little of their work!
Of course I have seen all of Boon’s trees. He doesn’t like to show, he’d rather his students show their trees.
 
I can tell you that the hedging technique does not go over well in Asia. If you told any Asian bonsai grower that you use hedging they would probably call you a 'fraudster' because hedged trees are sold to novices who don't know any better. A hedged tree is also worth less in Asia and is considered disrespectful to the tree.
I guess 2000 years of bonsai history tends to make people unwilling to use short cuts, these traditions are there for a reason. Just saying.
 
Indeed. At the Nationals, Matt Ouwinga displayed a root over rock trident that was just incredible. It had been in Kokofu. It was still in leaf, however, and the leaves, tiny as a pinky fingernail, still obscured the view of the trunk and branch structure. Easily the most amazing trident I have ever personally seen.
Have you any pictures to show of it? It would be nice to see what is thought of as the creme de la creme.
 
Back
Top Bottom