Bonsai auctions...Korean Hornbeam

Eric Group

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As Don pointed out, the tree DOESN'T cost $30-$40. It costs $58-$68...The shipping is the cost of doing business on the Internet. Amazon has spoiled people with shipping. They are big enough to get massive bulk discounts on just about everything they sell and/or ship. Independent sellers who deal in small or one-off quantities don't have that luxury.

I sold some pretty nice pots online recently after I couldn't sell them locally. Decent packing and shipping added as much as $40 to the price tag on some of them. However, some were worth over $100, so I wasn't going to take chances on having them arrive busted into big expensive shards...
the othe piece I feel nobody takes into account when ordering a tree or pot (more so the trees I think) is time- sure, the shipping costs money- most sellers do it at cost- the materials (boxes, packing peanuts, tape...) cost money and most of us eat a majority of that cost, but the TIME it takes to pack a tree well, especially a larger one... most of us do not bill anything for that and it can take HOURS to do it right! For anything with any weight, you cannot really just slap it in a box with some peanuts and let it ride- you typically have to wire it in there, sometimes you have to reinforce it with wood or more cardboard where it is wired, sometimes you have to reinforce the sides or top of the box too... if the tree is in a ceramic container, and you are shipping it in the pot, there is a whole other set of issues- whether ceramic or plastic or bare rooted, you have to wrap the pots in plastic to keep the soil from coming out and most of the time adding a layer of wet newspaper under the plastic to prevent drying out is a good idea, then bubble wrap the ceramic pots in multiple layers to prevent cracking, sometimes I wrap them, box the post in a smaller box within the big one then put a layer or two of padding under that pot also... this is a LOT of work! I bet if I aligned the time I spend doing this with the money I actually clear on most sales, it comes out to less than minimum wage some weeks.
 

Eric Group

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I agree and disagree with that. I also do understand that sometime you fall in love with a species and "have" to have it. I have found great tree's in my area, and that have great movement. Basically, all I'm saying if you stapped on cash there is always a way to get involved in this hobby and still have great material, Like my 28 cents crabapple from Home depot
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I guess we've had different experience as I found that they perform just as good it not better, in all those terms. Plus as Ryan neil says we need to get more involved in native species, also the guy can get a hornbeam, while he saves for a Korean one.
Not to be rude, but "great" is a bit subjective here... that is a cool crab if $.28 but not sure "great material" is the best description..

I fought the "finding cheap material" wars for years myself early on, and after 15 years I had a bunch of Home Depot trees I had hacked up and some nicer stuff I had grown out for a decade from tiny cuttings myself! Until I had the access to and funds to acquire better stock in recent years I did not see the kind of progression in my own trees I wanted to see. I have still got a massive addiction to propagation and from that a ton of smalls in my back yard... but I have added some much better quality stuff at the top end of my collection and it changed my mind about what is the best path to better trees!
 
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You seem to have a chip on your shoulder but if money is an issue, like was said, you can still do bonsai and collect good stuff like my massive ume, or bald cypress, or american beech ( all collected this year locally)
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Don't need to get hung up on species when the world of bonsai is massive and lots of ways to skin a cat
My guess is you have more than $28 in opportunity costs invested in each of those trees, considering digging, cleaning roots, pruning and potting. Heck, you'll probably have more than $28 in soil for each tree if you use quality products. And some day you'll need a pot for each. I'm 100% on board with collecting native species and doing bonsai as cheaply as possible, but its still going to cost you some coin to do it for free.
 

rockm

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No one is dumping on collecting. Half of my trees are collected natives HOWEVER the Asian species that have been used in bonsai cultivation for a long time, like KH and Japanese and trident maples are simply more amendable to bonsai culture. Natives not so much. Everyone is still learning. As for the .28 home depot find. Niiiice ;-)
 

erb.75

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Im just having trouble spending $28+ on a tree that cost $30- $40 dollars
If you buy local, you'll feel a lot better. No shipping charges and usually better deals. Drive to a bonsai place if u can, even if it's several hours away...it's worth it even if you can only make the trip once in ever couple of years. It does feel awkward when the shipping is more costly/roughtly the same price as the tree itself. buying from a bonsai nursery also means you get to look at the tree before buying it, and pictures are only a shadow of the actual tree
 

Giga

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Not to be rude, but "great" is a bit subjective here... that is a cool crab if $.28 but not sure "great material" is the best description..

I fought the "finding cheap material" wars for years myself early on, and after 15 years I had a bunch of Home Depot trees I had hacked up and some nicer stuff I had grown out for a decade from tiny cuttings myself! Until I had the access to and funds to acquire better stock in recent years I did not see the kind of progression in my own trees I wanted to see. I have still got a massive addiction to propagation and from that a ton of smalls in my back yard... but I have added some much better quality stuff at the top end of my collection and it changed my mind about what is the best path to better trees!

your missing the point, Yes I spend a few thousand a season, on wire ,supplies, pots, new tree's and the like. I take a different approach to bonsai(more @Walter Pall style) and what I was saying is that if you take a step back you can still approach bonsai and get great material, mainly you don't have to follow the rigid cookie cutter approach and still do bonsai and do it well.

My guess is you have more than $28 in opportunity costs invested in each of those trees, considering digging, cleaning roots, pruning and potting. Heck, you'll probably have more than $28 in soil for each tree if you use quality products. And some day you'll need a pot for each. I'm 100% on board with collecting native species and doing bonsai as cheaply as possible, but its still going to cost you some coin to do it for free.

yeah I do spend a lot( yeah I think I spent 400ish on soil this year), as I'm well off and am fortunate to buy nice material and pots when needed. Just saying there are difference approach methods
 

VAFisher

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as I'm well off

I don't want to start a beef but this is the 2nd or 3rd time that I've read that you're well off. It comes off badly and more than a little tacky. With that said, I like your trees and your contribution to the forum and you probably don't realize how that comes across. Hell, maybe it's just me and it doesn't come across that way to anyone else. If so, I apologize.
 

Eric Group

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your missing the point, Yes I spend a few thousand a season, on wire ,supplies, pots, new tree's and the like. I take a different approach to bonsai(more @Walter Pall style) and what I was saying is that if you take a step back you can still approach bonsai and get great material, mainly you don't have to follow the rigid cookie cutter approach and still do bonsai and do it well.



yeah I do spend a lot( yeah I think I spent 400ish on soil this year), as I'm well off and am fortunate to buy nice material and pots when needed. Just saying there are difference approach methods
I am honestly not picking on you or trying to scare up an argument in any way, just trying to clarify- what do you mean "more Walter Pall style"? Are you speaking to a more naturalistic style of trees? I am a big fan of WP, but if that was any comment towards the discussion we were having about the cost of material or whether buying shipped/imported/non local varieties is better or worse than collecting... Well I have seen many a post he has made of extravagantly expensive, imported material...

Regardless, perhaps I did miss your original point, what you said was something to the effect of "just go collect the trees in the Spring"- where I read "just" to mean well... JUST... Sure, collecting is a less expensive alternative to buying good stock others have already put work into. On that we can all agree I think! Though this is the Internet and nobody comes here to agree with people! LOL

The implication was taken to be something along the lines of discouraging people away from buying trees online and that I think sparked some harder lines responses from those of us do/ have in the past frequently sold trees online! For obvious reasons! Beyond the financial aspect, I have bought some decent stuff online in the last myself and would encourage people to do so through reputable sites like the established FB forums and even some EBay sellers...
 

Giga

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I don't want to start a beef but this is the 2nd or 3rd time that I've read that you're well off. It comes off badly and more than a little tacky. With that said, I like your trees and your contribution to the forum and you probably don't realize how that comes across. Hell, maybe it's just me and it doesn't come across that way to anyone else. If so, I apologize.

Not meant that way by any means, money comes and goes. I've come from bankruptcy during economic crash, maybe Im just happy I can provide well for my family again. Meant it as you don't need it to do bonsai if you have a will and passion, Not the best getting my point across specifically through them internets. Again I don't mean it that way at all!

I am honestly not picking on you or trying to scare up an argument in any way, just trying to clarify- what do you mean "more Walter Pall style"? Are you speaking to a more naturalistic style of trees? I am a big fan of WP, but if that was any comment towards the discussion we were having about the cost of material or whether buying shipped/imported/non local varieties is better or worse than collecting... Well I have seen many a post he has made of extravagantly expensive, imported material...

Regardless, perhaps I did miss your original point, what you said was something to the effect of "just go collect the trees in the Spring"- where I read "just" to mean well... JUST... Sure, collecting is a less expensive alternative to buying good stock others have already put work into. On that we can all agree I think! Though this is the Internet and nobody comes here to agree with people! LOL

The implication was taken to be something along the lines of discouraging people away from buying trees online and that I think sparked some harder lines responses from those of us do/ have in the past frequently sold trees online! For obvious reasons! Beyond the financial aspect, I have bought some decent stuff online in the last myself and would encourage people to do so through reputable sites like the established FB forums and even some EBay sellers...

I thick we both mean the same thing, just internet is losing it in translation, doh. I love fb auction and selling, buying trees as I use it too, think I sold 4 trees on there this year. "Just" you can do both depending on your means. I was just advovation collecting and cheap hunts, as that's what I prefer, and that it has the added benefits of being better for the wallet
 
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Mike 257

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If you buy local, you'll feel a lot better. No shipping charges and usually better deals. Drive to a bonsai place if u can, even if it's several hours away...it's worth it even if you can only make the trip once in ever couple of years. It does feel awkward when the shipping is more costly/roughtly the same price as the tree itself. buying from a bonsai nursery also means you get to look at the tree before buying it, and pictures are only a shadow of the actual tree

Best advise so far, I think staying local is probably what I need to do at this point. If I had years of experience in this hobby I would probably be in a different frame of mind but being as new as I am even $30 for the tree seems a lot since I don't even know if I could keep it alive. So to have $60 wrapped up in something seems a bit much right out of the gate. I just discovered that a Bonsai store will be opening near me in just a few more weeks so it will be great to see what I'm buying in person. Another problem I'm seeing about me buying online is I'm not familiar with a lot of the specie of trees so I'm not sure how well they will grow in my area. So yes staying local is probably the best bet for me at this stage of the game.
 

Cadillactaste

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Lucky you @Mike 257 ... Our nearest local landscape nursery is 40 minutes away...and since our grocery closed...45 minutes to the nearest one. But...our town sticks together...we now have produce and a deli in our local Drugmart pharmacy! For small things you can get by.

I hope you get some good folk at that bonsai nursery...that know what they are doing...and not selling mass produced box store crap.

But for me...I am content having trees shipped. My collection has grown from an amazing circle of bonsai folk in it.

Tip...buy zone friendly trees. That is where you will find the best success.
 

sorce

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Lolol....

Paying for shipping....

Trees don't like boxes! It's worse than indoors!

Trees aren't ALWAYS gonna be happy in a new place...
Ask Dav4.

Besides shipping....

You are also paying to make a tree weaker!

There is an equation behind it...

You can have better trees faster for less money if searching local.

And....

Trees, soil, clay, water, fire....
All from Earth.

Bonsai can be free.

Sorce
 

rockm

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Best advise so far, I think staying local is probably what I need to do at this point. If I had years of experience in this hobby I would probably be in a different frame of mind but being as new as I am even $30 for the tree seems a lot since I don't even know if I could keep it alive. So to have $60 wrapped up in something seems a bit much right out of the gate. I just discovered that a Bonsai store will be opening near me in just a few more weeks so it will be great to see what I'm buying in person. Another problem I'm seeing about me buying online is I'm not familiar with a lot of the specie of trees so I'm not sure how well they will grow in my area. So yes staying local is probably the best bet for me at this stage of the game.

Local is fine, IF you have a decent bonsai nursery nearby. Some of us do, most don't. You probably won't.

I've been doing bonsai for 25 years now. Have seen a lot of these retail outlets for bonsai. I've become jaded... The vast majority of "bonsai stores" opening up are mostly the same people that sell overpriced junipers from the roadside. If the store you're waiting on is one of those, expect to pay about the same for an "entry level" bonsai--forget about finding Korean hornbeam. Expect ficus, "Australian brush cherry" Chinese sweet plum and Chinese elm as the primary selection.

All the trees they're selling may, or may not, be suited for growing in your area outside year-round. The trees are mass-produced in China (if the place is more upscale, they may be from Brussels bonsai in TN). I wouldn't count on their stock being from Brussels, however.

Not trashing shopping locally. I'm just spoiled because I have several excellent places I can go here in the VA/DC/MD area. I can walk past these places when I see them pop up --and they pop up every few years in temporary store fronts in malls, etc.

FWI, if you can't stomach losing a $30-$60 tree out of the gate, you're in for a rude awakening. First trees rarely survive their owner's initial care. Ask any bonsai person about their first tree and you will get a "it died on me." If they've been doing bonsai for more than five years, you will get a more informed "I killed it" response.
 
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rockm

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Lolol....

Paying for shipping....

Trees don't like boxes! It's worse than indoors!

Trees aren't ALWAYS gonna be happy in a new place...
Ask Dav4.

Besides shipping....

You are also paying to make a tree weaker!

There is an equation behind it...

You can have better trees faster for less money if searching local.

And....

Trees, soil, clay, water, fire....
All from Earth.

Bonsai can be free.

Sorce

Ha! Bonsai is NEVER free. That's a myth. You pay for it in labor and in cash over time--even if you collected it or got it for a steal at Wally world. to think otherwise is delusional ;-)
 

sorce

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Even homemade pots...material used costs money no? @sorce ...

BY defintion. Doing bonsai.
Earth can provide all free.

Wether or not one can figure it out, or care to remain so limited....

Is another thing.

Sorce
 

Cadillactaste

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BY defintion. Doing bonsai.
Earth can provide all free.

Wether or not one can figure it out, or care to remain so limited....

Is another thing.

Sorce
Well, resourceful...is how ones in Africa ? Is that where Neli was from? Do it. They make their pots...bake them...and collect trees and things to make soil. But...typically...and here I go stereotyping...bring out the pitchforks and flames...Americans want the easy way out. Personally...I love what I've added to my bench taking the easier way out. I feel blessed to run in the circles I do...that has allowed me to add them to my bench. I don't begrudge one who chooses another route. Personally...if done correctly...yamadori is sweet. Now, some need to develop their eye for said thing. Not all should be bonsai'd.
 

Das Dude

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Seemed like a good time to add an update. First pic is upon arrival, second pic is after a spring growth spurt. Needs a serious haircut. In case you didn't already know - Ben is an awesome seller. Shipping was speedy and the tree was superbly packaged. As you can see it arrived in great shape, and is growing like a champ.

fullsizeoutput_c45.jpeg fullsizeoutput_b8e.jpeg
 

Cadillactaste

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Seemed like a good time to add an update. First pic is upon arrival, second pic is after a spring growth spurt. Needs a serious haircut. In case you didn't already know - Ben is an awesome seller. Shipping was speedy and the tree was superbly packaged. As you can see it arrived in great shape, and is growing like a champ.

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Congrats...that is a sweet piece!
 

Giga

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Nice shots - the apex looks a bit out of place though
 
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