Bonsai Europe/Knowledge of Bonsai Progressive Styling Contest

[Jay Wilson]

Thanks Graydon....That needed saying and you said it well.
Jay

 

[Anonymous User]

Paul, your sig, was that Rodney King who said that?


Will

 

[PaulStokes]

Paul, your sig, was that Rodney King who said that?
Will

Sorry Will, I do not understand.
-Paul

 

[Anonymous User]

Oh, sorry, I thought it was your sig...I was referring to your words, ". . .can't we all just get along?"


Will

 

[Graydon]

Oh, sorry, I thought it was your sig...I was referring to your words, ". . .can't we all just get along?"


Will

Very astute Will. It was Rodney King, the beating that indirectly spurred the LA riots. April 19, 1992. How soon we forget huh?

Peace.

 

[Vance Wood]

Can't we all just----------GET A TREE AND WORK ON IT? Not shouting just emphasizing. Geeze Louisse, every Internet contest I have ever been exposed to has had a dollar limt as to cost and source of material. This one has neither. We could see some really amazing work here and I'm excited about it. Most of the time what happens on the Internet is not much in the way interesting to me as to what I might get out of it. This one is different. A look at ideas and the way people think.

 

[PaulStokes]

I look forward to seeing your entry Vance and all.
-Paul

 

[Vance Wood]

I look forward to seeing your entry Vance and all.
-Paul

I almost forgot, I've been so interested in seeing what people like Walter are going to do, the fact I have to do the same was out of mind.

 

[Chris Johnston]

As my fellow construction workers used to say, "Can't we all just get a bong?"

 

[PaulStokes]

As my fellow construction workers used to say, "Can't we all just get a bong?"

My landscaping fellows would say the same thing, wrong or not.

 

[Behr]

I would like to add to the discussion here; that in my humble opinion, this is undoubtedly the finest idea for an internet contest that I have seen to date...Finally, a contest using 'real trees' that is not based on anything except the skill and artistic eye of the contestant if it is properly judged, and I have no doubt the judging will be of the highest quality...The fact that the contestant is being required to produce interim photos, and an explanation of their thought process, methods, and goals, is purely a stroke of genius...This is likely to be the best opportunity to learn from others that has been presented to date...This has the potential to be more conducive to learning than even a live demo/workshop, or a live styling contest due to the artist sharing their thoughts in the work they do on the material...

My congratulations and thanks to all those involved in putting such a wonderful contest together, and I for one look forward to the many things I will have the opportunity to learn...

Regards
Behr

 

[PaulStokes]

Behr,
I am speechless after reading your thoughts!
Thank you for the kind words, I look ofrward to seeing your entry as well.
-Paul

 

[Anonymous User]

Behr,

Thank you for the kind and encouraging words, they are greatly appreciated.

Paul will be announcing the judges soon, I think all will be happy with the choices.


Will

 

[Vance Wood]

I would like to add to the discussion here; that in my humble opinion, this is undoubtedly the finest idea for an internet contest that I have seen to date...Finally, a contest using 'real trees' that is not based on anything except the skill and artistic eye of the contestant if it is properly judged, and I have no doubt the judging will be of the highest quality...The fact that the contestant is being required to produce interim photos, and an explanation of their thought process, methods, and goals, is purely a stroke of genius...This is likely to be the best opportunity to learn from others that has been presented to date...This has the potential to be more conducive to learning than even a live demo/workshop, or a live styling contest due to the artist sharing their thoughts in the work they do on the material...

My congratulations and thanks to all those involved in putting such a wonderful contest together, and I for one look forward to the many things I will have the opportunity to learn...

Regards
Behr

It is my hope that even the detractor of this event will eventually understand what you have so eloquently voiced here. Thank you so very much for cutting right to the heart and soul of the matter and putting it into words. You deserve a medal for being right.

 

[Anonymous User]

.....and I have no doubt the judging will be of the highest quality...

And that they are, the judges have just been named at http://www.knowledgeofbonsai.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=977



Good luck to all, enjoy!



Will

 

[Behr]

Behr,
I am speechless after reading your thoughts!
Thank you for the kind words, I look forward to seeing your entry as well.
-Paul

Mr. Paul,

Thank you for being instrumental in this contest, and for the vote of confidence on my entering the contest...Please understand I am certainly not being critical here of the rules as posted, and I do realize any contest needs a certain amount of rules to be successful, however the rules as set forth [or at least my understanding of them] I feel will not allow me to compete in the contest with any amount of honesty or personal ability...

I am going to expound on this and I hope the admin of this forum does not mind me doing so, even though I realize the proper place to do this is in the ‘contest discussion’ thread at the KnoB forum...If you wish to copy my concerns and post them at the KnoB forum I much approve, and look forward to reading them there along with your reply...

STOCK

There are three categories of stock that will be accepted for this contest.

• Collected Stock. Defined as raw stock, not yet worked upon in anyway for bonsai, that has been collected by the entrant or purchased by the entrant from a person who collected it from the wild or from an urban environment where the stock was growing for over 10 years.

• Raw Stock. Defined as any stock purchased from a nursery (bonsai or otherwise) or an individual and that has not been worked in anyway for bonsai.

• Pre-Bonsai Stock. Defined as any stock, no matter the source, that has been worked previously by anyone for bonsai.

No past work will be accepted. The stock presented need not be purchased or collected recently, however, the stock must be raw and without any work done by the entrant at the time of submission.

Staked Trees that are wrapped around the stake as a styling method or tied to the stake in such a manner as to induce desirable trunk movement will automatically be qualified as Pre-Bonsai.

I am a person of very limited means financially, and yes, as mentioned one can go to a box store and obtain a piece of stock for less than $10 USD, but I believe we both realize this will not get a person very far in a contest, competing with the quality of stock likely to be entered by many...A piece of stock of this type does not have the necessary qualities to ‘showcase’ an artists talent and skill...

I have in my garden several pieces of collected material that have been recovering long enough to begin work on them, however as with any material I collect, at the time of collection I remove many of the branch/trunks that I feel will never be a part of the design...The phrases in the rules “not yet worked upon in anyway for bonsai”, and “No past work will be accepted. The stock presented need not be purchased or collected recently, however, the stock must be raw and without any work done by the entrant at the time of submission.“, would obviously eliminate this material from the contest...

The trees could be classified as ‘Pre-bonsai’, but indeed they are not that...They have not been selected and developed for years by a qualified nursery person according to their characteristics for bonsai, and as often is the case with collected material they will not adapt to some ‘standard bonsai conventions’...Roots have not been worked and developed, nor have branches or trunks been selected for taper and size...

All Styling work must be your own, workshop trees will be disqualified. Asking for, receiving, or soliciting advice from others will be cause for disqualification. Sorry, no tanukis, groups, forests or virtuals are allowed. For the sake of simplicity, this contest will be for single trees, the only exception will be dual trunks or multiple trunks where the root system is shared.

I have here to fore entered two internet contests and both of my entries involved what are considered by many to be ‘fake’ or ‘cheating’, one in fact involved creating a bonsai using ‘pipe cleaners’...As many are aware, I am a firm believer in the ‘whatever works to create the final image’ school...It is only a personal opinion of course, but to limit my work by not allowing the use of skills I have worked to develop such as; ‘tanuki [phoenix graft]’ or ‘grafted prosthesis’, penjing landscape, a saikei, or limiting those which would prefer to do a group or forest, is not conducive to receiving the best work of any given artist...This is somewhat like having a painting contest and telling the artist he/she must use only brushes, no pallet knives, sponges, wadded paper, etc. may be used, or having a music composition contest but only allow songs in ¾ time, or a sculpture contest where the artist is not allowed to use power tools...For some artists these limitations would be suitable, but not for all...

Although, I do fully understand the reasoning for such ‘rules’, I do not agree with limiting creativity...Hopefully there will be future contests from this group that will not need to establish such limits...

PRIZE CATEGORIES

The two main categories are professional and non-professional. If you have ever been paid for a demonstration, workshop, or a class, then you are a professional. If you have never been paid for a demonstration, workshop, or class, you are a non-professional. For the sake of clarity, if you own and/or operate a bonsai business or nursery, you are a professional.

I have approximately 30 years total time in bonsai, some more valuable to me today than others...My most recent time period being less than 4 years. And definitely the most valuable for learning due chiefly to the internet forums...I have through the years given many demos, workshops, and taught classes to well in excess of a hundred people, however I have never received even one dollar in compensation, nor have I sold any trees, nor owned or operated a bonsai nursery...I did manage a nursery for about 2 years, but it was a ‘bedding plant’ nursery to raise plants from seed and cuttings for sale annually in the box stores...We cultivated very few species suitable for bonsai, and did not keep them long enough to even be considered as potential material...Although it would be perfectly appropriate to compete in the non-professional category I personally would not feel good about doing so...I have no doubt there are many artists in the same situation, and there will likely be equal quality artists in both categories, but I do have personal thoughts about this…That would be almost like one entering their trees to be judged against beginners when they have several years experience...I am not saying the guidelines are wrong, nor do I have a better suggestion...It is just not right for me...There is a good possibility that soon I will be teaching some classes for compensation, so the next contest may be a better option for me...

PHOTOGRAPHS

Photographs must be at least 300 dpi and 8” in width, entries not meeting these standards, put in place for professional print publishing reasons, will be disqualified. Photographs must be clear, in focus, and without a distracting background. Photographs can be submitted in tif, jpg, or png format.

My current camera is a 3.2 megapixel digital camera, and I will need to spend quite some time learning to make photos of this quality, if it is even possible with the camera…I fully understand the need for this quality, and do appreciate the fact the contest is being held in conjunction with the magazine…I am just not sure I am able to comply at this time…

All work must be done on the stock within the time frame allotted in the contest rules. Work done before the contest start date will disqualify the entrant. Photos of work done on a bonsai prior to the contest dates will be disqualified.

Before Photographs

Before photographs of the stock must be received no later than midnight (CST or GMT -5) July 31, 2007 in order to enter the contest.

Final Photographs

Final photographs of the completed bonsai must be received no later than midnight (CST or GMT -5) September 1, 2007. Entrants who miss this deadline for submitting the final photographs of their entry will be disqualified.

I certainly do not have a problem or issue with this, but something for your consideration in the future is a longer time frame…Perhaps even a year…This would allow time for all entries to be properly potted, allow entries to be photographed without wire or other mechanisms of training, and would supply the supporting magazine with quality content every quarter during the contest…

JUDGING

Judging will be on the final image presented in the final photographs. Only the created bonsai will be judged and the judges will be asked to ignore containers, pots, or boxes as the nature and time frame of the contest may prevent both major styling and re-potting to be completed at the same time.

Once the final deadline has passed the judges will review all qualified entries in each category and assign each entry a sum of points from 0 to 10 based on the visual appearance of the final outcome as applied to artistic considerations and presentation.

The judges will decide which entry, based on the progression photos, presented the best solution to a problem presented by the stock. This entry will be named the winner of the best solution to a problem category.

Again not a problem or issue, and by the way the panel of judges are top notch…I was just wondering from the wording if the contest will be judged only on the final photo, or if the judges will have access to all photos and written documentation…It would be very helpful to the contestants and the judges to have this information available on each entry in my opinion…

Once again I reiterate, I am truly looking forward to seeing the progress and results of this contest, and the staff of KnoB is to be highly commended for having the foresight and determination to undertake such a valuable learning tool…My best wishes to the staff, and best of everything to all those who choose to enter…I anticipate a wonderful contest…

Regards
Behr

 

[Anonymous User]

.....the KnoB forum...If you wish to copy my concerns and post them at the KnoB forum I much approve, and look forward to reading them there along with your reply...

Behr, I know you addressed the post above to Paul, but I will answer some of your questions here as they are valid and since I wrote the rules, I think I am uniquely suited to do so.

The KoB forum (as opposed to the knob forum) welcomes all such inquiries.

I am a person of very limited means financially, and yes, as mentioned one can go to a box store and obtain a piece of stock for less than $10 USD, but I believe we both realize this will not get a person very far in a contest, competing with the quality of stock likely to be entered by many...A piece of stock of this type does not have the necessary qualities to ‘showcase’ an artists talent and skill...

We have divided up the categories into non-professional and professional categories and each of these categories are further divided up into sub-categories consisting of collected, raw, and pre-bonsai stock. There is no price limit on stock for various reasons including the impossibility of pricing collected stock, and the many varied budgets people work within. The categories as posted in the rules should allow all to enter.

I personally have purchased very nice quality stock for very little. I imagine that there will be those, especially in the professional categories that will spend large amounts on stock, I also imagine that there will be many that will not. I wouldn't be surprised if a least one category is won with a lower priced piece of stock...after all as I have said many times before, it's not the price that makes the stock great, it's the stock.

I have in my garden several pieces of collected material that have been recovering long enough to begin work on them, however as with any material I collect, at the time of collection I remove many of the branch/trunks that I feel will never be a part of the design...The phrases in the rules “not yet worked upon in anyway for bonsai”, and “No past work will be accepted. The stock presented need not be purchased or collected recently, however, the stock must be raw and without any work done by the entrant at the time of submission.“, would obviously eliminate this material from the contest...

The key words here are "worked for bonsai" and we know very well that a common practice when collecting stock is to remove branches for transport or for the debatable practice of "balancing the foliage" We also know the difference between the practices mentioned and pruning to shape or to induce back budding. Stock collected from an urban environment will have years of pruning behind it, yet none toward the design of a bonsai. Each collected entry will be examined individually, one of the reasons for the number of before pictures.

It is only a personal opinion of course, but to limit my work by not allowing the use of skills I have worked to develop such as; ‘tanuki [phoenix graft]’ or ‘grafted prosthesis’, penjing landscape, a saikei, or limiting those which would prefer to do a group or forest, is not conducive to receiving the best work of any given artist...This is somewhat like having a painting contest and telling the artist he/she must use only brushes, no pallet knives, sponges, wadded paper, etc. may be used, or having a music composition contest but only allow songs in ¾ time, or a sculpture contest where the artist is not allowed to use power tools...For some artists these limitations would be suitable, but not for all...Although, I do fully understand the reasoning for such ‘rules’, I do not agree with limiting creativity...Hopefully there will be future contests from this group that will not need to establish such limits...

No, it is like having a contest for pianists and stating that organs or electric keyboards will not be allowed. Forests, groups, phoenix grafts, and God forbid, even pipe cleaners take different skills than the traditional bonsai does and should rightfully be judged separately against others of the same style. We have future contests coming up which will cover these important aspects of the art as well, just don't expect a twist tie bonsai contest from us.

I have approximately 30 years total time in bonsai, some more valuable to me today than others...My most recent time period being less than 4 years. And definitely the most valuable for learning due chiefly to the internet forums...I have through the years given many demos, workshops, and taught classes to well in excess of a hundred people, however I have never received even one dollar in compensation, nor have I sold any trees, nor owned or operated a bonsai nursery...I did manage a nursery for about 2 years, but it was a ‘bedding plant’ nursery to raise plants from seed and cuttings for sale annually in the box stores...We cultivated very few species suitable for bonsai, and did not keep them long enough to even be considered as potential material...Although it would be perfectly appropriate to compete in the non-professional category I personally would not feel good about doing so...I have no doubt there are many artists in the same situation, and there will likely be equal quality artists in both categories, but I do have personal thoughts about this…That would be almost like one entering their trees to be judged against beginners when they have several years experience...I am not saying the guidelines are wrong, nor do I have a better suggestion...It is just not right for me...There is a good possibility that soon I will be teaching some classes for compensation, so the next contest may be a better option for me...

Most the bonsai community that I have met have excellent integrity and honor. I would expect those like yourself to enter under the category they think is best suited. This honor system has worked in every contest I have organized and I have only uncovered one single entry that was questionable and dealt with the issue in a fair and professional manner. I have faith in the bonsai community.

My current camera is a 3.2 megapixel digital camera, and I will need to spend quite some time learning to make photos of this quality, if it is even possible with the camera…I fully understand the need for this quality, and do appreciate the fact the contest is being held in conjunction with the magazine…I am just not sure I am able to comply at this time…

Ask a friend, relative, or club member to help you with the photos.

I certainly do not have a problem or issue with this, but something for your consideration in the future is a longer time frame…Perhaps even a year…This would allow time for all entries to be properly potted, allow entries to be photographed without wire or other mechanisms of training, and would supply the supporting magazine with quality content every quarter during the contest…

There is always the dilemma of having a contest that encompasses the years needed to fully develop a bonsai and hope that everyone remembers it after all that time passes....or shortening the time frame to keep active participants interested and posting the results within our life times.

I think we can agree that every tree receives the first major styling at one point or another and some can obtain remarkable results in this first setting. There is no doubt that all of the entries will develop further with time, but for the purposes of this contest, it is the first styling that we must judge.

The debate of instant bonsai is a well worn one, I participated in such a debate with John Dixon ( http://www.artofbonsai.org/feature_articles/b2b_instant_bonsai.php ) in which he took the opposing viewpoint. Bonsai Today magazine later republished the pro side that I took in the debate while unfortunately leaving out John's side. While I took the position that instant bonsai is used in demonstrations, workshops, and on the web for educational purposes all over the world, I noticed that it is still looked down upon by many. I understand the reasons for this and agree with most of them, however, the time needed to fully develop a bonsai can be detrimental to a teaching environment in some ways and very restrictive in creating a contest.

The few months we do allow is still a far cry better than the few hours that most demos are created in. Please also notice that re-potting is not mandatory and that the judges are instructed to pay no attention to the containers and judge the tree alone.

Again not a problem or issue, and by the way the panel of judges are top notch…I was just wondering from the wording if the contest will be judged only on the final photo, or if the judges will have access to all photos and written documentation…It would be very helpful to the contestants and the judges to have this information available on each entry in my opinion…

Rremember that there are prizes for the best solution to a problem and other categories, the judges will have full access to all material submitted, but in the end the major prizes go to the results not the journey taken. The journey will teach us, the results will be judged.

Once again I reiterate, I am truly looking forward to seeing the progress and results of this contest, and the staff of KnoB is to be highly commended for having the foresight and determination to undertake such a valuable learning tool…My best wishes to the staff, and best of everything to all those who choose to enter…I anticipate a wonderful contest…

Thank you and thanks for allowing us to clarify these points. And it's KoB, you know, like AoB

Will

 

[nsmar4211]

Behr has made (as usual) several good points regarding starting cost.... also one reason I shy away from contests .

The contest idea itself is a great one, the clincher is the "progression" photographs!

I do have a minor suggestion regarding the final judging. Although the judges have been instructed to "ignore" the pot/container the tree is finally presented in, that's like asking someone to ignore a mountain or a paintings' frame-not likely to happen. To alleviate this, perhaps the final entries could be Photoshopped to remove the pot/container from the picture (i.e. crop it off, without cropping any roots). Unless the container is undulating or a crescent, would only take a second to do.... or perhaps the entrants themselves could do so? I do realize this could set up some "cheating" by people conviently cropping out bad features on the nebari, so an "unaltered" picture could also be required (if the entrants are doing it themselves).

 

[PaulStokes]

Behr,
Thank you for your questions. I feel that Will has answered them very well.

nsmar,
We all know that to do an intial styling and repot in such a time frame could kill the tree. The main focus should be the tree surving the contest. That is why the judges are going to ignore the pot the tree is in.
I would be unfair to place a tree in a bonsai pot against a tree in a nursery can.

To all others the KoB has an area to address all questions and conserns about this contest. It is unfair to bonsai nut to keep the questions here.
If you have a question or concern please post it there.

http://www.knowledgeofbonsai.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=910

-Paul

 

[Bonsai Nut]

please go somewhere else

this spam is not wanted here

This site is inclusive, not exclusive. As long as it contributes to the art of bonsai, is positive and constructive, it probably has a home here.

Why don't you run a contest zelk? Then I would happily allow you to promote your contest on the site, and would be interested in hearing (and seeing) the results. I'm not being cynical, I really think that more contests are better than none at all.

I would personally be depressed if any time I ran a contest I immediately had people questioning my motives. If it bothers you that much, why don't you just skip over the thread instead of slamming the authors?