Bonsai in China

[daygan]

There's a hotel close to where I do my bonsai that has quite a few bonsai displayed on their premises. Usually, when I look at these trees, I'm just disappointed because they don't seem to be cared for or maintained at all. Many of them don't really have any branch development - their branches consist of shoots that just sprawl everywhere. However, several of them have trunks with redeeming value, and, if they were to ever find themselves in the care of someone who understood and cared about good bonsai, they could become pretty neat trees. Here are some pictures, for everyone's viewing pleasure.

Chinese Elms

Loropetalums (I have front and back pictures of the second because I couldn't figure out which side was actually the front)

Pine(see back of minvan for scale)

Broadleaf trees of uncertain species

 

[QuintinBonsai]

Have you thought about volunteering to care for the trees? Maybe you can ask the hotel manager if they will allow you to do so. Those are some pretty nice trees. It would be a shame to see them go uncared for.

 

[Klytus]

Do we know the species of Pine prevalent today and is it demonstrably identical to those cultivated by the enlightened gentlemen of Taoist antiquity?

Maybe they (the Chinese as a bloc) do the Mugo in the Naturalistic style but i would hope not.

 

[Mac In Oak Ridge]

I'd...

A. Ask at the hotel about them, politely.

B. Offer to care for them as you have time, it would be a great learning experience.

You may find this is a collection of trees from a father who passed and they are just being watered out of respect for him. Or, the hotel changed hands and the new owners don't know diddly about bonsai. You just may find out you could buy some of them at a good price because they are getting tired of watering them.

Any way you play it you win.

 

[daygan]

Have you thought about volunteering to care for the trees? Maybe you can ask the hotel manager if they will allow you to do so. Those are some pretty nice trees. It would be a shame to see them go uncared for.

I actually asked a receptionist this past fall... If I remember correctly they didn't really take me seriously and said something like the manager's not here right now or busy or something and didn't offer to help me contact him/her.

@Mac : I think I may go back tomorrow and try again with a little more persistence to get a meeting with the manager. We'll see where it goes from there! Thanks for the suggestions.

and @Klytus ... (sigh) you're the challenging one. I'll do my best to reply, but I need clarification: 1.. "... prevalent today" WHERE? On earth? In China? Used in bonsai? specifics would be helpful 2. "cultivated by the enlightened gentlemen of Taoist antiquity" : do you mean "cultivated as bonsai by Chinese in past eras"? or did you mean something entirely different? 3. why do you hope that the Chinese do not develop Mugo in a naturalistic style?

 

[Poink88]

I agree that they are in sad shape...great potential but in poor condition. I won't even call them bonsai now.

Re: volunteering to care for them...ever thought of a possible backlash? They might accuse you later of destroying the trees. Heaven forbid that some are already dying now and they die while under your care, what happens? Much as I like the idea...I won't do it if I were you. If you do, thread carefully and document how their condition well before you start.

Good luck!

 

[Klytus]

You are the one in China,who better to ask?

 

[daygan]

Well, I talked to the manager today and she told me that the trees are rented from a local garden center. Interesting. So that would mean if I wanted to do anything with any of them, I'd have to get permission from the garden center. I still find it quite unbelievable that bonsai/penjing of that quality can actually be rented out to anyone.

@Klytus - sure, but i still need you to help me understand clearly what exactly it is you're asking. The question "Do we know the species of Pine prevalent today.." without any sort of condition connected to the "prevalence" (i.e. "prevalent in the western hemisphere", "prevalent in the practice of bonsai", "prevalent in Singing Pines bonsai practioners' bonsai collections") means "Do we know the species of pine prevalent today in the entire world" ... Is that what you're asking? If not, can you rephrase your question in a more concise manner, please?

 

[Attila Soos]

...and @Klytus ... (sigh) you're the challenging one. I'll do my best to reply, but I need clarification: 1.. "... prevalent today" WHERE? On arth? In China? Used in bonsai? specifics would be helpful 2. "cultivated by the enlightened gentlemen of Taoist antiquity" : do you mean "cultivated as bonsai by Chinese in past eras"? or did you mean something entirely different? 3. why do you hope that the Chinese do not develop Mugo in a naturalistic style?

Rhetorical questions are not supposed to be answered...
When Klytus asks a question, it's usually rhetorical. He is pretty good with answering his own questions.

As honorable as your intentions are, regarding the care of those neglected trees, don't waste your time on the hotel owner. He obviously knows nothing about bonsai, so he would not appreciate your efforts. Instead, try to focus your energy to where it matters and on people who deserve it. Also, people will often confuse free service(or advice) with worthless service. They believe in "you get what you pay for", so if they pay nothing, they are supposed to get nothing. Watch for that as well.

Here is what I would do.
Some of those trees have a lot of character. Since they are neglected to such a degree, I take that their owner would be willing to sell some of them for rather cheap. If he valued them more, he would take better care. Initially he may tell you that they are very valuable, but that's not what his actions tell me. So, I would offer to buy a couple of them for a very reasonable price, and then proceed to bring them back to their maximum potential. Then I would show the owner the result, and if he likes it, offer my services for a reasonable fee (but never for free).
This way, everybody is happy, and you can test yourself on how good you really are, when push comes to shove.

 

[rockm]

"I still find it quite unbelievable that bonsai/penjing of that quality can actually be rented out to anyone."

Why? I've seen higher quality bonsai in the U.S. rented out for special events. It can be a money if done correctly.

However, in this instance, if you try to buy them from the nursery owner, your offer should take into account the income the guy gets from simply renting them out. He may have a contract with the hotel and they pay a calculated monthly fee. You're not going to know that going in. I have a feeling that fee could be pretty stiff, since the guy at the hotel renting them has absolutely no idea about bonsai. The trees' owner either doesn't understand bonsai or couldn't give a crap about them as long as they're paying the rent...

 

[daygan]

What I mean is I think it's unbelievable that bonsai of such poor quality can actually be rented out. .. a few of these trees don't even have anything left of life on their main trunks - what is surviving is shoots that are coming up from the base. They're "used-to-be-bonsai".

 

[Klytus]

I guess the garden centre staff would be the ones to ask about the species of Pine prevalent in their inventory.

 

[rockm]

"What I mean is I think it's unbelievable that bonsai of such poor quality can actually be rented out"

Most people have no idea what "bonsai" is supposed to look like. There is an entire industry devoted to selling crappy ugly bonsai in malls to people who don't know what they're buying. At least these USED to be decent trees (and still are with some pruning)

 

[daygan]

Most people have no idea what "bonsai" is supposed to look like. There is an entire industry devoted to selling crappy ugly bonsai in malls to people who don't know what they're buying.

yes... it's unfortunate, I think..

 

[daygan]

Two more trees: two junipers (?) that are a few clipper-strokes closer to being good looking bonsai than most of the others, I think.

 

[Poink88]

This looks very promising.

 

[Attila Soos]

However, in this instance, if you try to buy them from the nursery owner, your offer should take into account the income the guy gets from simply renting them out. He may have a contract with the hotel and they pay a calculated monthly fee. You're not going to know that going in. I have a feeling that fee could be pretty stiff, ...

Right. I was thinking about buying another tree that is not rented out. I am visioning a yard full of unkempt bonsai, just sitting there for years, without anybody looking at them.

 

[daygan]

Well, when I get around to finding this alleged garden center, I'll let you guys know what I learn