Bunjin or ?

[noissee]

I really like cascade's virt. But I also like image 3 with a jin like Chris has suggested. However, if it were my tree, I would go ahead and try to do some heavy bending with that top part. Not as drastic as Irene's virt, but definitely something that harmonizes with the lower branches. If it doesn't work then you can always cut it off and go with option 3.

 

[rockm]

The third virt is by far the best option. The other two are vastly too tall to look very good.

"find the smallest tree possible" is one of the best instructions I've ever gotten in regards to bonsai design. The third design retains the most dynamic portion of the trunk and brings the branches in close to it, allowing them to play off of each other. The other designs are meandering and diffuse. They minimize the trunk, instead of emphasize it. The lower third of the trunk is this tree's greatest strength.

 

[mcpesq817]

I like option 3, particularly Chris' virt, the best.

Cascade's virt is really nice as well, the only issue I see is that it might be difficult to reduce the needles to such a small size.

 

[JTGJr25]

The third virt is by far the best option. The other two are vastly too tall to look very good.

"find the smallest tree possible" is one of the best instructions I've ever gotten in regards to bonsai design. The third design retains the most dynamic portion of the trunk and brings the branches in close to it, allowing them to play off of each other. The other designs are meandering and diffuse. They minimize the trunk, instead of emphasize it. The lower third of the trunk is this tree's greatest strength.

Spot on. You couldn't have said that better.


Tom

 

[Victrinia Ensor]

I like option 3, particularly Chris' virt, the best.

Cascade's virt is really nice as well, the only issue I see is that it might be difficult to reduce the needles to such a small size.

The traditional Japanese approach to needle reduction will not achieve that... that much is certain. And without 1/2 inch needles, Cascade's virt would not come together.

As Mark said... create the smallest tree possible, and you're on to something. There's almost nothing about this tree which says bunjin to me... not with those marvelous lower branches available.

And Mike... silly rabbit... of course you can hollow out and move the tree in a radical way... I wouldn't... but it could be done, and you obviously already know how.

Kindest regards to all,

Victrinia

 

[Bill S]

Rockm and JTG said it best, compact and tight is good.

I agree as well with Mark that it's too tall for a convincing tall bunjin.

 

[Vance Wood]

We have kind of reached the crux of the discussion that has been going on around here and in other places about Bunjin, Literati, and a host of traditional styles. First off as I suggested in Post #6 the third image is the better tree topped with a bit of jin from the reduced trunk. The argument now becomes what is this; a literati, a bunjin, or something else. The answer in my feeble opinion is that it is a bonsai. Who says that it has to fit into a pigeon hole described by some long gone artist or some self proclaimed expert (no offence intended to the dead or otherwise)? If this image makes the image of a bonsai and is believable then who cares what style it is? If being able to define it is the determining factor,--- then the definitions are wrong. Many bonsai produced today do not fit the classical images but they are none the less beautiful recognizable bonsai regardless if they are formal uprights or ham sandwiches.

 

[kytombonsai]

Number 3 and remove the crossing root.

Tom

 

[Mike Page]

Number 3 and remove the crossing root.

Tom

That root reminds me of a dog sitting on it's tail.

Mike

 

[irene_b]

Don't want to hurt you feelings, but do like I do and have a Pro do the styling, and take care of the the more important part and keep them healthy.

keep it green,
Harry

Harry I did do that years ago...The Journey of Bonsai is about doing the hands on every day work and care that needs doing...I have only let Hans Van Meer work any one tree...The rest I do...
My trees are my creations.
Irene

 

[treebeard55]

To me, the part of the trunk I've bracketed in yellow tells a story that conflicts with the story told by the lower part of the trunk. The result is jarring. That's my biggest reason for voting for #3.

Cascade's virt does fix that, so if you can reduce the needles that much I think it's a viable option.

Rock, good point! ("Find the smallest tree possible.")

 

[Vance Wood]

To me, the part of the trunk I've bracketed in yellow tells a story that conflicts with the story told by the lower part of the trunk. The result is jarring. That's my biggest reason for voting for #3.

Cascade's virt does fix that, so if you can reduce the needles that much I think it's a viable option.

Rock, good point! ("Find the smallest tree possible.")

Even if the needles stay the size they appear in the photo the tree should work cut down to #3.

 

[irene_b]

To me, the part of the trunk I've bracketed in yellow tells a story that conflicts with the story told by the lower part of the trunk. The result is jarring. That's my biggest reason for voting for #3.

Cascade's virt does fix that, so if you can reduce the needles that much I think it's a viable option.

Rock, good point! ("Find the smallest tree possible.")

That is the same reason why I felt it needed to be bent.

 

[greerhw]

Number 3 is the only one that makes any sense, the other two, well................

keep it green,
Harry

 

[Vance Wood]

You are correct Harry. We seem to forget one of the laws in decision making: The process of elimination, sometimes called Occam's razor: After eliminating all of the options but one; the one, must be the best or correct option.

 

[irene_b]

You are correct Harry. We seem to forget one of the laws in decision making: The process of elimination, sometimes called Occam's razor: After eliminating all of the options but one; the one, must be the best or correct option.

That is true to a degree... Myself I like to see several shots of the tree 1/4 turns...
Irene

 

[Mike Page]

You are correct Harry. We seem to forget one of the laws in decision making: The process of elimination, sometimes called Occam's razor: After eliminating all of the options but one; the one, must be the best or correct option.

The 14th century produced Occam's Razor. The 20th century produced the KISS Principle.

 

[treebeard55]

Hope you don't mind a correction, Vance.

The dictum known as Occam's Razor says: All else being equal, the simplest solution to any given question is most likely to be the correct one. (That's not verbatim, but that's the point of it.)

The principle of elimination, which you quoted, was made famous by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle in the Sherlock Holmes books: When the impossible has been eliminated, whatever is left, however improbable, must contain the truth.

Have a great Sunday!

 

[Paul H.]

Here is what I would do with the tree if it was mine. Frst till it more to the right . round out the bend in the second branch . It is more windswept then bunjin ,now. I have attach a virt of what I am thinking of . hope this helps in the future of this pine . But may not solve the bunjin or not ?

 

[bonsai barry]

Mike, once the poll is complete I hope that you will give us your opinion regarding this tree's potential and your future plans for it.

Jeff