Can I graft hinoki cypress to thuja occidentalis?

[minkes]

I keep seeing this thread popping up, and I keep wondering why you want to graft another species onto your white cedar. What's wrong with real folige?

I have two old thuja trees from the hedge. Foliage is very far from the trunk so I need to graft foliage back to the trunk. Of course best option is to graft it with thuja foliage for best compatibility. You should just check all post here - mainly first ones. I just came here to ask, what is possible and answers from others was, that grafting juniper or chamaecyparis to thuja is also possible (check photos up here). So why not to have tree with better foliage if it is possible? Maybe I will go with chamaecyparis, because it is probably more compatible with thuja than juniper. But I have two trees. Maybe I will try to graft juniper on one and chamaecyparis on the other. If it fails I could always graft it just with thuja next year and forget about experiments (but why not have some fun with trying something new). If it will be successfull and confirmed after few years, maybe it could help someone else.

 

[Gabler]

So why not to have tree with better foliage if it is possible?

I guess that's what I'm trying to figure out. What makes the foliage better? Is the difference big enough that it's worth growing a Franken-tree?

 

[minkes]

I guess that's what I'm trying to figure out. What makes the foliage better? Is the difference big enough that it's worth growing a Franken-tree?

So why others graft shimpaku to rocky mountain juniper? To make better trees or Franken-trees? I think aiming for better tree is good goal or not?

 

[Gabler]

So why others graft shimpaku to rocky mountain juniper? To make better trees or Franken-trees? I think aiming for better tree is good goal or not?

Exactly. Why do people graft shimpaku onto another species? I don't see many people grafting Japanese maple branches onto red maple trunks or grafting Japanese black pine branches onto ponderosa pine trunks.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

Look up for another replies. It was not my idea to graft juniper to thuja, but suggestion from others. I will probably take safe way and try to graft chamaecyparis which seems to be closer to thuja comapred to juniper.

You said juniper in your response . That’s what I found confusing

 

[Frozentreehugger]

I guess that's what I'm trying to figure out. What makes the foliage better? Is the difference big enough that it's worth growing a Franken-tree?

Several people have . Grafted Hinoki to cedar . I presume some are Hinoki fans . ( which there are a lot of ) Hinoki has much smaller foliage . If you look at my prev posts . Eastern white . Does not have tight foliage and often .olive drab colour especially outside the mid summer time . Colour has been much improved on cultivars . Which there are lots of especially for hedge material. The worst foliage attributes are often on wild trees . Collected for there dead wood often. Much has been written about improving styling and pinching for better . Results . With native foliage . But you can only do so much . Worse great wind cold tortured trees and exquisite tight foliage. ( that can not be duplicated ) trying often kills trees in cultivation For me primo is a recent cultivar that has great foliage , and tight growth .many many of the best bonsai have used grafting for much the same reasons . It’s common practice in Japan .

 

[Gabler]

Several people have . Grafted Hinoki to cedar . I presume some are Hinoki fans . ( which there are a lot of ) Hinoki has much smaller foliage . If you look at my prev posts . Eastern white . Does not have tight foliage and often .olive drab colour especially outside the mid summer time . Colour has been much improved on cultivars . Which there are lots of especially for hedge material. The worst foliage attributes are often on wild trees . Collected for there dead wood often. Much has been written about improving styling and pinching for better . Results . With native foliage . But you can only do so much . Worse great wind cold tortured trees and exquisite tight foliage. ( that can not be duplicated ) trying often kills trees in cultivation For me primo is a recent cultivar that has great foliage , and tight growth .many many of the best bonsai have used grafting for much the same reasons . It’s common practice in Japan .

There's a Seinfeld episode called "The Implant" that pretty much sums up my feelings about grafted trees. I have trouble understanding how it could ever be worth it to put another species' foliage on a bonsai tree. Why is grafting accepted when tanuki is frowned upon? Is tighter foliage really that important?

It would ruin this tree at Longwood Gardens, for example.

 

[Frozentreehugger]

There's a Seinfeld episode called "The Implant" that pretty much sums up my feelings about grafted trees. I have trouble understanding how it could ever be worth it to put another species' foliage on a bonsai tree. Why is grafting accepted when tanuki is frowned upon? Is tighter foliage really that important?

It would ruin this tree at Longwood Gardens, for example.

View attachment 580371

I get what your saying . But can’t completely agree . Myself I’m not interested in combining 2 tree species. Cedar/Hinoki . That’s why I’m just using cedar to better cedar . At end of the day it’s about improving trees . For multiple reasons . But we get attached to trees and proud of our efforts . Ex my Yamabeaver , collected tree initial style from . Furry Canadian . I have lots of time and effort to reduce the long trailing roots . ( they went up a rock face bare ) while I was doing that for multiple years . I reduced the king foliage with nothing near the trunk . And created back budding to get to where it is. At initial collection . One would think it’s a great candidate to graft bear the trunk. Today I would not . As I’m to proud of what I created so far .

 

[minkes]

Buds of deciduous trees are swelling here. Is this good time to try grafting my thuja? Or wait till thuja tree starts to grow?

 

[minkes]

Update 3 months after grafting. Hopefully they will take

 

[TrimmyWhimmy]

*dreaming up all kinds of frankenstein-ed conifers*

 

[minkes]

*dreaming up all kinds of frankenstein-ed conifers*

I need few to play with . Dead parts are there because of the dieback. For me it is just learnig material, I have many thujas and these are just side projects from removed hedge.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

So why others graft shimpaku to rocky mountain juniper?

Because it is "relatively" easy to find Rocky Mountain junipers with old twisted trunks and tons of age and character. Whereas it is impossible to find shimpakus of any advanced age in the wild. If Rocky Mountain juniper had fine compact foliage, no one would be interested in grafting shimpaku on it. Same can be said for other mountain/desert juniper species - California juniper, Utah juniper, etc. The native foliage is coarse and sparse - so you replace it with soft, fine shimpaku foliage.

People graft for one of two reasons - it is faster/easier than propagating any other way (since grafting is quite labor intensive), or because the rootstock provides some advantage that the scion material doesn't have/provide (including aesthetic ones). All grape vines in Europe are grafted on American grape rootstock for the purpose of insect resistance (grape phylloxera). Depending where citrus is being grown, it is grafted on rootstock that is strongest/best for the conditions - whether it is dry alkaline west coast soil, or wet and acidic east coast soil. The only thing that is a given is that Valencia orange (for example) is never grown on Valencia orange roots.

And rootstock can be a two-edged sword. Sometimes a positive attribute (like strength) can be accompanied by a negative one (coarse, leggy growth). Japanese white pine grafted on JBP (P. thunbergii) roots looks different (in my opinion) than JWP grafted on Southwestern white pine (P. strobiformis). And you will always have the challenge of hiding the graft union and matching the two barks - which is not an issue with nursery plants, but a huge issue with bonsai where a detectable graft union ruins a tree.

 

[Adamski77]

Because it is "relatively" easy to find Rocky Mountain junipers with old twisted trunks and tons of age and character. Whereas it is impossible to find shimpakus of any advanced age in the wild. If Rocky Mountain juniper had fine compact foliage, no one would be interested in grafting shimpaku on it. Same can be said for other mountain/desert juniper species - California juniper, Utah juniper, etc. The native foliage is coarse and sparse - so you replace it with soft, fine shimpaku foliage.

People graft for one of two reasons - it is faster/easier than propagating any other way (since grafting is quite labor intensive), or because the rootstock provides some advantage that the scion material doesn't have/provide (including aesthetic ones). All grape vines in Europe are grafted on American grape rootstock for the purpose of insect resistance (grape phylloxera). Depending where citrus is being grown, it is grafted on rootstock that is strongest/best for the conditions - whether it is dry alkaline west coast soil, or wet and acidic east coast soil. The only thing that is a given is that Valencia orange (for example) is never grown on Valencia orange roots.

And rootstock can be a two-edged sword. Sometimes a positive attribute (like strength) can be accompanied by a negative one (coarse, leggy growth). Japanese white pine grafted on JBP (P. thunbergii) roots looks different (in my opinion) than JWP grafted on Southwestern white pine (P. strobiformis). And you will always have the challenge of hiding the graft union and matching the two barks - which is not an issue with nursery plants, but a huge issue with bonsai where a detectable graft union ruins a tree.

ditto... have one of these junipers bought a while ago... great trunk with age and character but foliage is less than good looking (pictures). I cut is super hard this season... want to regrow tops of the branches... and will see if there is a chance to get to any type of reasonable pads from original foliage... but if not I already have shimpaku parked aside growing tips for next spring