Chasing Foliage Back

[CuriousLayman]

I purchased a shimpaku this year. The limbs are too long and need to be shortened. I'm having trouble finding information on how to do that. Do you just let a bud closer to trunk take off and then saw the branch off there in a few years? Just looking for any pointers or suggestions.

 

[MichaelS]

Normally you would cut off the branch a couple of inches beyond where you want the branch to end, remove any green from the stub and jin it later on. When you cut short main juniper branches, you have to be prepared for a drastic slowing down of it's vigour for quite a while. Probably a year or 2.

 

[Eric Group]

Pretty difficult to "chase foliage back" on an established Juniper. Typically if you prune hard, the new growth just pops from the crotch back where the branch splits or from where it meets the trunk.

Typically you "shorten" the branch by wiring dramatic movement into the branches which pushes the foliage back in closer to the trunk while adding interest with the movement.

If that isn't possible... well regrowing a new ranch from growth at the critic is possible, though a bit time consuming sometimes.

 

[markyscott]

The challenge with junipers is that you can't cut back beyond growing shoots. If you have long leggy branches that you want to make more compact, you have to develop interior shoots closer to the trunk before you cut back. To do this, let the branch grow, clean up the old needles to let light and air into the interior and hope for new shoots to develop you can cut back to. If the branches are very old, you may have to graft. When you get new interior shoots you remove more foliage on the outer canopy to encourage stronger interior growth. When it's strong enough, you can cut back the old branch to the interior shoot.

As Eric pointed out, you'll often get new shoots at the crotch of older branches. Normally you'd remove these as part of normal maintenance, but if your goal is to chase back foliage, this growth can be very important.

Consider this branch:


This crotch growth is very important because the branches are leggy. It's too weak to cut back yet, so let it grow until it is stronger. Make it stronger by making sure it get's plenty of sun and by slowing down growth on the outer canopy by removing foliage. Then cut back and wire - like this:



Scott

 

[Adair M]

Scott is absolutely correct.

 

[CuriousLayman]

Thank you Scott. I do have growth closer to the trunk already. But those are really just the start of a branch. It sounds like I just let those develop a bit before I cut back.

 

[markyscott]

Thank you Scott. I do have growth closer to the trunk already. But those are really just the start of a branch. It sounds like I just let those develop a bit before I cut back.

That's 1/2 the battle and really good news. Let them grow and make sure that they get plenty of light by thinning the outer canopy. If healthy, the tree will respond by directing more growth to the interior. When it's strong enough, and this is a bit of a judgement call, you can cut back the leggy branches to the new shoot and build from there. You can judge that it's strength by looking for the shoot to develop runners like this:



When a shoot starts running, it's a great sign that it's strong enough to support the branch.

Scott

 

[chicago1980]

Great discussion!

 

[augustine]

The process is much quicker if you plant into the ground which you can do in NC.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Great illustration Scott. Here is something I wrote a while ago that shows similar steps. I can't draw, so I photo!
https://nebaribonsai.wordpress.com/2015/07/25/juniper-pinching-pruning-and-wiring/

 

[Eric Group]

Good info in this thread! To the OP, you will get better/ more specifc advice to your tree if you post pics of it. Otherwise we could all discuss a half dozen different ways to address foliage that is not cooperating in different stages pf development!

Great info though guys!! These are the kinds of threads that can help people get better.

 

[CuriousLayman]

I realize this a poor image. It just happens to be the one on my phone. I can update it later. Thanks for all the help.

 

[markyscott]

I realize this a poor image. It just happens to be the one on my phone. I can update it later. Thanks for all the help.

Those do look leggy and some of the branches are old and may not readily bud back. Have you any grafting experience.

Scott

 

[CuriousLayman]

I have no experience with grafting but wouldn't mind trying. Here are some more photos of the inner growth. Almost all the branches have growth much closer to the trunk. I've tried to capture that here:

 

[markyscott]

I have no experience with grafting but wouldn't mind trying. Here are some more photos of the inner growth. Almost all the branches have growth much closer to the trunk. I've tried to capture that here:

That's a good start, but you'll eventually want branching much further back. Consider your first picture:



The shoots you have are pretty strong - I think you can safely cut back next year. But look at the branch. It has no branching, no taper. You'll eventually want shoots back further - like where the arrow is. You might get lucky and get some shoots closer to the trunk, but you might also want to be prepared to graft a shoot right where you want it in case you don't. For now, you might want to take some cuttings when you cut back the branch. Grow the whips out and then you'll have some for grafting down the line.

Scott

 

[Adair M]

Scott is, once again, absolutely correct!

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Though this has been mentioned obliquely in this thread, I want to make sure the point comes across:

With junipers, foliage is the engine of their strength and growth. If you reduce foliage too much, the tree will stall, and may decline or die outright. How much is "too much" depends on a lot of things like how strong the tree is, the season, etc. I don't know what others do but as a rule of thumb I try not to reduce junipers by more than 50% at any one time. After you prune a juniper it is also really important to allow it time to recover its strength.

 

[markyscott]

Though this has been mentioned obliquely in this thread, I want to make sure the point comes across:

With junipers, foliage is the engine of their strength and growth. If you reduce foliage too much, the tree will stall, and may decline or die outright. How much is "too much" depends on a lot of things like how strong the tree is, the season, etc. I don't know what others do but as a rule of thumb I try not to reduce junipers by more than 50% at any one time. After you prune a juniper it is also really important to allow it time to recover its strength.

Great reminder BN - it's very important to reduce the foliage on the outer canopy slowly until the interior shoots are strong enough to take over. Probably also a good idea not prune back the major branches all in one go, but to space them out so you don't remove too much foliage at once.

Scott

 

[markyscott]

Great illustration Scott. Here is something I wrote a while ago that shows similar steps. I can't draw, so I photo!
https://nebaribonsai.wordpress.com/2015/07/25/juniper-pinching-pruning-and-wiring/

Thanks Brian - I've learned a lot reading from your blog! Keep up the good work!

Scott