clinoptilolite Zeolite

defra

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Chabasai is a central ingredient for us in Montréal, I like it a lot!

Any clue on what the difference between chanasai and the zeolite i showed is?
Also in what kind of percentage's do you use it in your mix?
 

Wilson

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Any way this is readable in english?
Pics looks interesting but cant read the info lol
Sorry about that! I wasn't even realizing I was sharing a french page, I have become a "franglophone"(francophone/anglophone). It just breaks down a test they did of akadama vs. Chabasai, and some of the beneficial properties of chabasai. The type I get here looks very similar to pumice. I will use this with a black haydite, sometimes diatomaceous earth, and pine bark.
 

hemmy

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Any way this is readable in english?
Pics looks interesting but cant read the info lol

Paste the link to Google Translate.

Here’s what I got:

Buffer effect: maintains medium at neutral pH
Particle size: 2-5mm
CEC 230 meq/100g

Pictures claim akadama on left and chabasai on right, 2 maple shoots initially same size planted in Spring. Pictures are from December.

My take, nothing conclusive from pics of just 2 trees. The chabasi tree has more roots and is larger. But that could be natural variation. There are more roots because the larger tree has branching.

Also good stuff above @defra, keep up the good work!
 

R3x

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I am growing in pure Zeolite from my beginnings in September 2015. It can be bought for cheap here - like from 100kg for 36EUR in shop that sells koi stuff or even cheaper in factory/yard where they sell gravel, sand and such stuff. The only disadvantage is that it is quite heavy. But on the other hand stabilizes trees in pots and pots themselves pretty well.

Recently bought 2 boxes of Spanish stuff called Lechuza - it's main component is Zeolite as well but there are some others that make it lighter. Put some young plants into it. Contains some initial fertilizer. Costs 23EUR for 25kg box...
 

defra

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@defra are you still liking zeolite two years later? I found this at a local store and am tempted to try it. $18 for a 40lb bag! https://sweetpdz.com/what-is-sweet-pdz/
Yes I'm still liking it but more important my tree's still like it as well!
I don't use it pure but around 15-20% in my mixes
 

defra

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Also maybe worth the mention, I have seen that the bonsai nurseries started selling pre mixed soils wich also include zeolite in there for the reason that it has a high cec level :)
 

kale

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Also maybe worth the mention, I have seen that the bonsai nurseries started selling pre mixed soils wich also include zeolite in there for the reason that it has a high cec level :)
Good to know, thanks! I am just not able to find pumice locally so this seems like a decent substitute.
 

defra

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Ah, so more like a replacement for Napa 8822!
napa 8822 is comparable with DE ?
in the Netherlands DE come's in the form of cat litter its also called terramol is a danish backed Clay that is my main soil ingrediënt
roughly i use 50% DE 20% zeolite 15% split(gravel) 15% pine bark
then with conifers that prefer a little more dry feet i decrease the DE and increase the gravel since that doesnt hold moisture

so if napa 8822 is comparable with DE you can add the zeolite to that as well as pine bark and gravel and you will have a decent basic mix wich you can play around with to find what percentages suit your needs.
 

kale

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napa 8822 is comparable with DE ?
in the Netherlands DE come's in the form of cat litter its also called terramol is a danish backed Clay that is my main soil ingrediënt
roughly i use 50% DE 20% zeolite 15% split(gravel) 15% pine bark
then with conifers that prefer a little more dry feet i decrease the DE and increase the gravel since that doesnt hold moisture

so if napa 8822 is comparable with DE you can add the zeolite to that as well as pine bark and gravel and you will have a decent basic mix wich you can play around with to find what percentages suit your needs.
Yep Napa is America's cat litter. I've got quite the collection of substrates to play with now. Expanded Shale, Lava rock (maroon), Napa, and adding zeolite after our discussion lol. I have some orchid mix that I can grab a pinch of larger particles out of for a small portion of organics as well. Not sure what exactly it is but some sort of wood. Also some peat moss I've been tempted to add for acidity but not sure if its worth slowing down the drainage.
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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Peat will slow drainage, not usually used for that reason. Orchid mixes tend to be for bark based. The same bark used for bonsai mix.

Lava, shale, zeolite, DE-Napa8822, orchid bark sounds a good mix. Add more lava to dry it out, add more DE, & zeolite to make it wet, more bark for acid loving plants.
 

sorce

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Don't know how I missed this title that sounds like the first Chipotle built on a planet far far away.

Sorce
 

kale

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Peat will slow drainage, not usually used for that reason. Orchid mixes tend to be for bark based. The same bark used for bonsai mix.

Lava, shale, zeolite, DE-Napa8822, orchid bark sounds a good mix. Add more lava to dry it out, add more DE, & zeolite to make it wet, more bark for acid loving plants.
Ok great thanks Leo! It's nice to know everything I have is at least useful.
 

Arlithrien

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Lava, shale, zeolite, DE-Napa8822, orchid bark sounds a good mix. Add more lava to dry it out, add more DE, & zeolite to make it wet, more bark for acid loving plants.
I wonder if zeolite could replace pine/fur bark without throwing off the soil pH too much. Based on that French website it appears to not affect the maple.

Sounds like it would compliment DE well. I theorize that it wouldn't easily suck water from the roots with how much water DE holds, unless the medium was allowed to become bone dry, which I have read DE does as well under those circumstances.

Maybe I will try 50/30/20 of DE/L/Z compared to the same ratio DE/L/Bark.

And then maybe 75/25 and 90/10 DE/Z compared to my plants currently in 100% DE.
 

defra

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I wonder if zeolite could replace pine/fur bark without throwing off the soil pH too much. Based on that French website it appears to not affect the maple.

Sounds like it would compliment DE well. I theorize that it wouldn't easily suck water from the roots with how much water DE holds, unless the medium was allowed to become bone dry, which I have read DE does as well under those circumstances.

Maybe I will try 50/30/20 of DE/L/Z compared to the same ratio DE/L/Bark.

And then maybe 75/25 and 90/10 DE/Z compared to my plants currently in 100% DE.

Over here DE 100% stays wet way to long.
De supposed to have a low cec level and zeolite a realy high one.
It holds a ton of moisture as well but if you use it to replace the pine bark the pH value of the soul Wil change no doubt about that.
Zeolite ph value should be between 6,8 en 7,2 and bark between 5 and 6 pH so that is quite a difference but unless it's a real acid lover like azalea for example i wouldn't worry about it
 

Leo in N E Illinois

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I wonder if zeolite could replace pine/fur bark without throwing off the soil pH too much. Based on that French website it appears to not affect the maple.

Sounds like it would compliment DE well. I theorize that it wouldn't easily suck water from the roots with how much water DE holds, unless the medium was allowed to become bone dry, which I have read DE does as well under those circumstances.

Maybe I will try 50/30/20 of DE/L/Z compared to the same ratio DE/L/Bark.

And then maybe 75/25 and 90/10 DE/Z compared to my plants currently in 100% DE.


I know it might be semantics, but I think using the word "replace" is just plain wrong. Zeolite and Bark are NOT at all alike. One could NEVER replace the other in chemistry nor physical structure. Bark is a "dynamic" particle in that it begins deteriorating as soon as you water the mix the first time. The bark slowly releases organic acids as it decomposes. Zeolite, is a mineral, it is not inert, while "fresh" it will bind up various cations, and slowly release some once the all the bonding sites are saturated. This dynamic cation exchange property is completely different than what bark does. The structure of the zeolite does not break down over time, where bark eventually crumbles into "dust" or "mud" in the 2 to 3 year span.

So one product does not replace the other.

However, you can create unique mix designs with bark or without bark. The mixes are not "replacements" for each other, each mix will have its unique characteristics based on the ingredients.

Based on the components of your mix you need to modify your watering habits, and your fertilizer choices. The various mixes are unique, and require unique adjustments in watering and fertilizing and repotting frequency. Each is unique. There is no replacement for Akadama, no replacement for bark, no replacement for DE. These are all unique. You need to understand your media, and how it works in a mix.

My suggestion is to pick materials for your potting mix based on your individual local availability, cost, and your desired watering habits and your desired fertilizing habits. Then for your mixed collection of conifers and deciduous, use only 2 different mixes made from your selection of ingredients. Limiting to 2 or 3 basic mix designs will make it easier to keep track of what needs water when, and what needs fertilizing when. One key for me is availability, if I run out, I need to be able to restock within a few days. That is one factor that drives my selection.

This all seems incredibly complex. And part of the problem is the science behind the different mixes is not well documented in layman's terms. There are "tried and true" mixes, and there are experimental mixes. My suggestion is to go with the "tried and true" designs. Keep it simple. There is plenty of documentation that most mixes that include only a single component, the 100% mixes, have serious shortcomings. Once you get to a 3 component mix, performance is usually pretty good. Pick one component for long term soil structure, pick one for water holding capacity, and then pick one component for unique properties, for example pH buffering, or perhaps for CEC, or pick one like Akadama, that has a unique suite of properties.

Then once you pick your components - stick to them and learn how to water them and fertilize with them. IF you have a thousand mixes, you will never figure out when to water or fertilize.
 
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