Collected Ponderosas

[grouper52]

I'm including four of the six Pondys I got on the collecting trip to Wyoming and Montana with Dan and Eric. The other two I collected for a beginner friend, and they are not really of the same potential or interest as these ones.

No great stories here, except that the first one was the one I got later "after the fall". That storm Eric mentioned largely blew over, so when I had removed much of the more obvious cactus needles and put my clothes painfully back on, I scurried, painfully, back up the cliff, and finding nothing, went on to the ridge beyond, High on a ledge were two huge plates of rock forming a cleft than ran down at about a 30 degree incline to the edge of a 60 foot sheer drop, and along the crack joining the two rocks were two nice trees. This one was the closer, the farther from the edge, and so the safer, and it was also the better one, and fairly easy to extract with a good root ball. I wanted to preserve, for now, the entire length of the root ball I collected, and didn't have a long enough pot when I got home, so I made the pond basket contraption to foster root growth near the base, since eventually I will want the roots near the base rather than way out on the distal tip.

Enjoy.

 

[Tachigi]

All great finds Will. When were these collected? Really like your first shown Pondy should produce a great tree. Your friend is a lucky guy to have someone that would endure slings and...errrrr catus needles .... to collect a few
trees.

 

[Klytus]

So lucky.

What's with the pond basket?

A custom pot could be in order,a two tiered cantilevered contraption.

 

[mcpesq817]

Wow, very nice trees - well worth the effort and cactus needles

I really like the first one too.

 

[TheSteve]

So lucky.

What's with the pond basket?

A custom pot could be in order,a two tiered cantilevered contraption.

I believe he stated clearly what was with the pond basket. maybe you could veil your attempts to incite a little better.

Nice trees Will. Sounds like you guys had a really successful trip.

 

[jquast]

Grouper,

I'm heading off for my first collecting trip to the Eastern Sierras next month for Western Junipers and Ponderosa pines. Your photos have me anxiously waiting for October to arrive!

Do you have any advice for what type of soil to put the Ponderosas in?

Thanks,
jeff

 

[Rick Moquin]

Lot's of potential there Will, lucky devil

 

[anttal63]

wow will nice trees; cactus needles??? makes my recent collection sound tame.

 

[grouper52]

Thanks everyone.

jquast, I just throw the Pondys in the same old 100% inorganic mix I use for everything else. Compared to junipers, they transplant fairly easily. Lucky you to be going after Western junipers - gorgeous trees.

 

[Attila Soos]

Thanks everyone.

jquast, I just throw the Pondys in the same old 100% inorganic mix I use for everything else. Compared to junipers, they transplant fairly easily. Lucky you to be going after Western junipers - gorgeous trees.

Yes, that is the best way to do it.
ANY collected tree, at least in their first year, should go into a 100% inorganic mix. This will minimize root rot and encourage strong recovery. Especially collected conifers, since many of them still have a small rootball with original soil, and anything other than 100% inorganic will create a medium that retains too much water.

In later years, the tree can be planted into the owner's favorite mix. But the first year is the most critical, and 100% inorganic is a wide consensus amongst collectors.

 

[rockm]

"ANY collected tree, at least in their first year, should go into a 100% inorganic mix."

UH UHHHH. Put a water loving species like recently collected bald cypress or wisteria into such a mix and you will lose substantial portions (if not all) of the trunk. I plant recently collected BC and wisteria and a few others in 60/40 or even a little richer soil when potting them.

 

[grouper52]

"ANY collected tree, at least in their first year, should go into a 100% inorganic mix."

UH UHHHH. Put a water loving species like recently collected bald cypress or wisteria into such a mix and you will lose substantial portions (if not all) of the trunk. I plant recently collected BC and wisteria and a few others in 60/40 or even a little richer soil when potting them.

Interestingly, although I use 100% inorganic at all times, a number of people I know, including Dan, use a roughly 60/40 mix here where it's often incredibly wet, and they seem to have no more problems than I do in recently collected trees. I suspect one's kill rate, or survival rate, or whatever you want to call it, has more to do with the actual collecting technique than with the soil it is transplanted into - but I might certainly be wrong. It would be a hard thing to run a well controlled experiment on.

 

[Attila Soos]

"ANY collected tree, at least in their first year, should go into a 100% inorganic mix."

UH UHHHH. Put a water loving species like recently collected bald cypress or wisteria into such a mix and you will lose substantial portions (if not all) of the trunk. I plant recently collected BC and wisteria and a few others in 60/40 or even a little richer soil when potting them.

There is not too may places more dry and hot than where I live, here in So. Cal. (except the Valley next to me, and the hard-core desert close by). So, if anybody needs to worry about evaporation, that's me.

And I allways use 100% pumice for everything. Actually, I just dug out a montezuma cypress, that is very similar to the bald cypress, and it is doing great in 100% pumice.

So, I stand by the inorganic mix, it never failed me. Needless to say, it needs watering every day.

PS: the bald cypress, of course, is an aberration, since it can grow in standing water. It is not the typical bonsai material that I was referring to.

 

[Attila Soos]

Interestingly, although I use 100% inorganic at all times, a number of people I know, including Dan, use a roughly 60/40 mix here where it's often incredibly wet, and they seem to have no more problems than I do in recently collected trees. I suspect one's kill rate, or survival rate, or whatever you want to call it, has more to do with the actual collecting technique than with the soil it is transplanted into - but I might certainly be wrong. It would be a hard thing to run a well controlled experiment on.

I used to mix some organic components years ago, but I noticed that the trees were struggling with the wet feet, and I lost some of them. The ones I lost, clearly succumbed to fungal infection.

With the 100% inorganic, the results are clearly better. The veterans that I know here all use either 100% DG or Pumice for collected trees.

P.S: the heat may also have a say in this. In cooler climates, fungal infection may be a lesser threat, but where I live, wet and very warm is a lethal combination. An inorganic mix is a more sterile environment, less likely to accomodate fungi. Up in the North-West, it is very moist but much cooler, which can explain why the trees can grow in a more moisture-retentive medium without being infested with harmful fungus.

 

[Rick Moquin]

I have no experience with collecting as I don't. However, as I profess with your main substrate, you should use what the folks are using in your area. I believe that Jason plugs all his collected stock in 100% pumice until they thrive etc... and he is not the only one that practices this.

It goes without saying that certain species like the BC might not do as well. However, I believe a BC plucked in 100% inorganic in a basin of water would do marvels.

I have had great success with 100% turface in ground layering. I have recently had tremendous success rooting a 2 inch branch that I cut from my weeping willow, that sprouted like crazy. It was once again in 100% turface, the pot submerged in a basin of water. It rooted in 6-7 weeks and is now potted up in a terracotta pot with my regular mix but with coarse sphagnum moss added to the mix.

After the tree showed signs of growth, it was placed on my normal feeding regime which happened after 1-2 weeks of being cut. Mind you this is a willow, but nonetheless, 100% inorganics do work.

BTW many Japanese books refer to sand, turface is the size of sand they are referring to.

Edit in bold

 

[TheSteve]

The root growth in pumice is amazing. I've got a pic here somewhere I'll try to dig it out.

 

[TheSteve]

It's a phone pic but hopefully you get the idea. This is an old RMJ less than a year after collecting. The roots were actually growing into the wood in the training box and I had to get it into something more stable.