Collecting. With or without permission?

How do you collect tree's?

  • Always with permission

    Votes: 69 74.2%
  • Do it regardless.

    Votes: 24 25.8%

  • Total voters
    93

Asus101

Yamadori
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There is a small debate going on else where about collecting.
Do you collect without out permission if you know you will be denied such permission or do you leave the tree where it is?
What if the tree is a pest species?
 
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Always with permission, the tree belongs to someone. And taking a tree without because you know you will be turned down is still stealing.

How about this....I really want to collect a few of your trees you have in your yard, I know you'll say no, so do I just take them anyhow?

Doing that here would earn you an arse full of birdshot.


A word to the wise.... http://knowledgeofbonsai.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=82



Will
 

Daysleeper

Sapling
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If It is state owned or federal land then I will take what I want when I want. those agencies have no power over me. I will ask If the tree is located on a reservation or private property.
 
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If It is state owned or federal land then I will take what I want when I want. those agencies have no power over me. I will ask If the tree is located on a reservation or private property.

Get caught and you will soon find out just how much power they have over you. ;) And yes, even as a native.




Will
 

anttal63

Mame
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:pyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssssssssssssssssssssss:p if its an introduced specie always take if not private land and not meant to be part of the land scape. parks, street scapes etc. but yes some do see it as cut and shut. getting into trouble here over that i dont think so and if so i'll take a chance. you gonna tell me what to do now ace? :p ps couldnt vote on this one its way to narrow minded.
 
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meushi

Mame
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Always with permission... I don't know the specific laws in America or Australia, but in most European places it's up to 2 years jail time and auctioning of anything used to collect the tree (including the vehicle used to carry the tree away). Some of those countries removed the public whipping from that law last century.

Don't steal, the government hates competition ;)
 

noah78

Seed
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ok an example .lets say i drive past a pine plantation and its fenced off 10metres from the road. Now theres a heap of self seeded pines growing on an embankment some twisted, some with split trunks etc all under a metre or so high before the fence. So these pines are between the road and the fence. To me mate these are up for grabs. They are self seeded, not planted. They are twisted not straight hence no good for timber production . They are stunted ,again no good for timber production. Anyone got a shovel:D
 

Asus101

Yamadori
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Interesting answers.
I respect the Ettiquitte with collecting by always asking permission. I have found here in Aus you can get permission from the councils if you know how to ask and who to ask. I have seen a few people also get cuaght and taken home a pretty nice fine...
 

anttal63

Mame
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Interesting answers.
I respect the Ettiquitte with collecting by always asking permission. I have found here in Aus you can get permission from the councils if you know how to ask and who to ask. I have seen a few people also get cuaght and taken home a pretty nice fine...

how much was the nice fine and what were they digging out, on what land please be more specific:)
 

bretts

Shohin
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LOL interesting to see this discussion here. It seems that some posts on this where removed from Ausbonsai. Whatever:p

I am happy to see this discussion having two different sides. I tried to discuss this subject on the old IBC and got a one sided discussion.

I think every country will be different. Places like Japan or china where mountains have been stripped of native trees are an example of what needs to be avoided. Europe and America seem to be getting to a cross road where they must make sure Japan and China are not repeated. I get the idea there are a growing number of entrepreneurs that are trying to make a living of selling collected material in these countries I have little idea if these are natives or not. Non native weeds that are self seeding on the side of the highway in bushland area that the council would remove if they had the budget or land to be cleared but would not officially allow collection due to liability or inability to find the correct form. Being the other side to the argument.

I have read a paper from one of the government sites which I believe was aimed at land owners on when permission is given to rip out trees which was, natives never, wild exotic weeds when the ground incline was not over a certain amount which I gather is to avoid any soil erosion. Discussions I and others have had with council is that they have no problem with us removing exotic weeds from the side of the road in bushland areas. I take all this into consideration. I have not gone as far as asking for official documentation and it seems no one knows who should hand out what in our state so I use all the information above to make reasonable judgments on when to collect.
Not sure if it is still in place but I remember council laws that prevent any tree being removed from the garden in your home whether you planted it or not. The process was to get approval and if given then a tree must be planted some where in the yard to replace. By this law I would have to get council aproval every time I ripped up one of my ground grown trees.:eek:
 

bretts

Shohin
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I have found here in Aus you can get permission from the councils if you know how to ask and who to ask.
When you say permission is this written permission from someone who has authority to give or is this verbal won't stand up in court when the Judge asks for paperwork type permission?
 
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Ashbarns

Mame
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I think every country will be different. Places like Japan or china where mountains have been stripped of native trees are an example of what needs to be avoided.



I find this information interesting, where does this come from?
 

anttal63

Mame
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lol bretts, yep its interesting how this travelled here. im glad to hear you didn't miss a beat over night.
whatever:p lol yes i believe there is room for responsible discretion.weeds are weeds and that is purely what im talking about. NOT NATIVES. although i would appreciate some licensing in that department:)
 
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I've collected trees from garbage cans and from burn piles before without asking permission :)


Abandoned goods are an exception, like a few Yews I took when a clueless home owner dug them up and sat them next to the road for garbage pick up.



Will
 
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rockm

Imperial Masterpiece
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Permission, whenever possible

"If It is state owned or federal land then I will take what I want when I want."

This is the attitude of a spoiled child. Such attitude and behavior threatens everyone who collects trees for bonsai. Your sorry attitude endangers the ability of more sensible, mature and law-abiding collectors to use Federal and state owned land.

Location on state or federal land does not entitle you to take a tree "when you want." It is not yours. It belongs to the taxpayer and is held in trust for the whole community. Such lands are managed for a reason. To keep people like you from carting off anything they take a fancy to. Get your lazy butt up to the proper office and get a (expletive deleted) permit like the rest of us.

If I see you "collecting" a plant without permission on county, state or Federal land (and I will ask you if I see you) and you don't have a permit, I will hold you until the police/rangers/law enforcement arrives, OR I will personally escort you to their offices. If you put up an argument, I will respond in kind.

Seeking the proper permission when collecting on such property is NOT optional. If you collect, you have a responsibility to find out what it takes to do so and to live up to those responsibilities. The world is not your oyster, no matter how special your mommy said you are.
 

anttal63

Mame
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"If It is state owned or federal land then I will take what I want when I want."

This is the attitude of a spoiled child. Such attitude and behavior threatens everyone who collects trees for bonsai. Your sorry attitude endangers the ability of more sensible, mature and law-abiding collectors to use Federal and state owned land.

Location on state or federal land does not entitle you to take a tree "when you want." It is not yours. It belongs to the taxpayer and is held in trust for the whole community. Such lands are managed for a reason. To keep people like you from carting off anything they take a fancy to. Get your lazy butt up to the proper office and get a (expletive deleted) permit like the rest of us.

If I see you "collecting" a plant without permission on county, state or Federal land (and I will ask you if I see you) and you don't have a permit, I will hold you until the police/rangers/law enforcement arrives, OR I will personally escort you to their offices. If you put up an argument, I will respond in kind.

Seeking the proper permission when collecting on such property is NOT optional. If you collect, you have a responsibility to find out what it takes to do so and to live up to those responsibilities. The world is not your oyster, no matter how special your mommy said you are.

wow thats a bit dramatic. too bad if you meet your match.:)
 

Bill S

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I like it rock a definate line in the sand. It is what is missing these days of leave me alone or I will slap a law suit on you.

Remember the days whan you didn't do somethings because someone might see you and you would get it from the catchor, then your parents, then possibly the police. A few more butt whoopins would go a long way to straighten out our society.

Wheres Harry, bet he'd agree.

Side of the highway around here is State property.
 

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