Jessf
Mame
the graft is close to 6" above the soil line, that's not too hight? The picture may not do justice to the size of this material.
Crab trunk chops - what should I expect?
- Thread starter Jessf
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rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Depends on what you want the final design to look like. I'd not go much shorter than its current height. If you do, it will look very odd proportionally for a very long time. The only taper it currently has is above the graft line. If you eliminate the upper section, you lose more than only height...
coh
Imperial Masterpiece
Have you explored below the soil surface at all? I won't be surprised if you find a several more inches of featureless trunk before you get to any good roots (and maybe even reverse taper, I see some hints of that just above the soil surface). You might very well have to do a ground layer (wire tourniquet) in that case.
Having not worked at all with grafted trees - does anyone know what will happen when branches start growing above (but close to) the graft, but not below? Will that taper tend to disappear, or will there always be a swelling below the graft? Wondering if it might be smart to allow a couple of branches to grow from below the graft to serve as sacrifice branches to help preserve the taper (assuming branches sprout in that area)?
Edited to add - regarding ground planting - here in zone 6 western NY I've had almost 100% success with trees, shrubs, perennials planted before June. In contrast, I've lost lots of things planted later in the summer or fall. I think June is a grey area...normally I think it should have time to root in well, but consider that you've chopped off all the foliage so for now there's no photosynthesis to help re-grow roots. I'd be inclined to keep it in the pot for another season, or provide extra winter protection if I planted it in the ground at this point.
Having not worked at all with grafted trees - does anyone know what will happen when branches start growing above (but close to) the graft, but not below? Will that taper tend to disappear, or will there always be a swelling below the graft? Wondering if it might be smart to allow a couple of branches to grow from below the graft to serve as sacrifice branches to help preserve the taper (assuming branches sprout in that area)?
Edited to add - regarding ground planting - here in zone 6 western NY I've had almost 100% success with trees, shrubs, perennials planted before June. In contrast, I've lost lots of things planted later in the summer or fall. I think June is a grey area...normally I think it should have time to root in well, but consider that you've chopped off all the foliage so for now there's no photosynthesis to help re-grow roots. I'd be inclined to keep it in the pot for another season, or provide extra winter protection if I planted it in the ground at this point.
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Jessf
Mame
coh
Imperial Masterpiece
You've already chopped off the entire top of the tree...personally, I wouldn't do anything else to it this season. My approach would be: 1) get it growing (being careful with watering until new growth is well along), then 2) next spring unpot and evaluate the roots...do what is necessary there (others can advise on the specifics) and either re-pot or plant in the ground.
Caveat: I'm pretty new at this bonsai thing (though I've been growing plants in pots for many years), so others may have differing opinions.
Caveat: I'm pretty new at this bonsai thing (though I've been growing plants in pots for many years), so others may have differing opinions.
Jessf
Mame
the tourniquet process takes several years. Any actual stress on the tree wouldn't be immediate, I might be a year behind if I don't apply it now. No?
coh
Imperial Masterpiece
I don't know what more to tell you. You might be right about the stress not being "immediate", but why chance it? Hopefully some more experienced members can offer some insights.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Skip the tourniquet method. It's the long way around. You have to see what's underneath the soil, as was mentioned, before you start working on the nebari. Simply cut off the ugly roots growing up on the trunk. The tree won't miss them at this point. They are growing at the expense of roots lower down.
As far as reliveing stress on the tree, the tourniquet method is not less stressful. It could actually be MORE stressful as it restricts the complete flow of nutrients up the tree if it is completely around the trunk. What you are doing with that method is forcing the tree to abandon its existing root system in favor of growing a new one...Selectively pruning a root mass is probably less stressful, since it allows some roots to continue to function.
As far as reliveing stress on the tree, the tourniquet method is not less stressful. It could actually be MORE stressful as it restricts the complete flow of nutrients up the tree if it is completely around the trunk. What you are doing with that method is forcing the tree to abandon its existing root system in favor of growing a new one...Selectively pruning a root mass is probably less stressful, since it allows some roots to continue to function.
Jessf
Mame
when I do look at the roots more closely, and I discover some reverse taper, is it common to graft some limbs low down on the trunk to help the trunk develop some thickness low down?
this, of course, is assuming no buds appear in the area you want trunk thickness.
this, of course, is assuming no buds appear in the area you want trunk thickness.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Grafting is not common, although beginners always seem to think it is. You will not need to graft anything. The trunk chop should produce branching lower down.
What is common for apples with poor nebari (surface rooting) is an air or ground layer. Ground layering is easiest and safest and can produce superior results. Do some research, but basically you prepare the trunk in a similar manner to an air layer, except the bark removal is at or near soil level. The wounded trunk is buried beneath at least two or three inches of soil and left to push new roots...
What is common for apples with poor nebari (surface rooting) is an air or ground layer. Ground layering is easiest and safest and can produce superior results. Do some research, but basically you prepare the trunk in a similar manner to an air layer, except the bark removal is at or near soil level. The wounded trunk is buried beneath at least two or three inches of soil and left to push new roots...
Jessf
Mame
by completely removing a ring of bark right down to the cambium layer, isn't that putting more stress on the tree than a wire tourniquet which slowly cuts the sap off?
I'll do some reading on it.
I'll do some reading on it.
Jessf
Mame
I got a chance to look more closely at the apple today, sorry no pics. I dug down and was happy to find some decent flaring roots, no reverse taper. It got me to thinking about removing those 3 ugly vertical roots visible in my photos, and perhaps grafting them lower down. I've read of many different ways to graft smaller trees onto the base of a larger one in order to form a more pleasing nebari, but is what I'm suggesting possible?
i was thinking about cutting each root, preparing the end, then drilling a small hole in the base of the tree and jambing the root in there. As long as the root remains alive, it should work, no?
i was thinking about cutting each root, preparing the end, then drilling a small hole in the base of the tree and jambing the root in there. As long as the root remains alive, it should work, no?
Jessf
Mame
6 more buds higher up from the large shoot.
coh
Imperial Masterpiece
I bet you'll have a couple dozen shoots before long. Hopefully you've got it in a nice sunny spot...
