Cut paste

[PABonsai]

What kind of cut paste do you use? Do different pastes have different uses or do you use one for everything? I intend to compare some results with/without to see what happens. Any and all feedback is appreciated.

 

[Hartinez]

I’ve used beeswax. Works ok, unless it’s cool ok. I’ve also used a traditional cut paste, which was just that, a messy paste. It’s my understand there is a traditional cut paste that is more of a putty, which I would prefer. @Dav4 uses a product called Duct Seal. Sold at hardware stores, it’s used to seal up HVAC ducting. He swears by it. I’ve yet to use it myself, but his trees and results speak for themselves. And the price of a small bucket of it is small and will last you, well, forever??

Either way, your probably going to get quite a few answers here. As everyone has there own opinions and data to back it. I wish I could explain to you the specific science that is taking place and why or why not to use it, but as you said, your experimentation will go a long way as to answering all of your own questions long term.

 

[kouyou]

What kind of cut paste do you use?

i use these three on japanese maples, depending on the need. my reasoning for initially choosing these three was simple: i didn't have the experience necessary to make a decision for myself, so i contacted a nursery in japan directly, and a student who had studied at another nursery in japan, and I was told that these 3 are what they use on their maples.

I have no complaints so far - they seem to do exactly what i need them to, without causing any issues

i have never pruned even the smallest twig on any of my maples without sealing the cut, so I can't compare sealing vs. not sealing. What I know is that what I am doing now works for two respected nurseries in japan, and seems to be working for me as well as others in my community with much more experience than me. I have never been one to tamper with a good recipe.

 

[Pitoon]

Anything that will seal out air from the cut should work. All depends just how messy you want to go about doing it.

 

[penumbra]

I use the paste primarily for aesthetics, so I bought a couple to use. One is more gray and one more brown. (Amazon) Frankly though, I use them infrequently and only on large glaring cuts which I have few of.

 

[August44]

Being new to this, I have tried a number of them. The middle one pictured above is the best by far in my opinion!

 

[0soyoung]

I wish I could explain to you the specific science that is taking place and why or why not to use it

While not a head-on assault of the question, I think my posts in "The Bark Is Back" explains the basic issue of preventing desiccation of exposed cambium cells. After 2-3 weeks the residual cells have generated an epiderm that prevents them from desiccating, so the covering (paste, whatever) can be removed. IMHO, now begins the argument about whether cut pastes do anything or not.

 

[Captain.Bonsai]

Tree sap and ambient oxygen. Works great. Natural. Easy to use. Starts working instantly. Zero cost. Trees have been doing it since the beginning of time.

Scroll or flip through any modern academic text regarding callus formation in trees and you will find they all say the same thing. It’s obvious everywhere you look in nature and supported by research.

Sealing a wound with paste is the best way to encourage pathogens.

 

[PABonsai]

IMHO, now begins the argument about whether cut pastes do anything or not.

Well, I'm hoping to avoid that. Lol. I tried keeping the question narrow so as to avoid a war. I'm just trying to find out what folks use so I can begin with cut paste/no cut paste experimentation.

 

[PABonsai]

Sealing a wound with paste is the best way to encourage pathogens.

I don't disagree at all. I tend to actually agree that the natural method is the best, otherwise it wouldn't be the natural mechanism. To me it's like anything else in nature, I don't believe we can do it "better".

However I find it interesting that the greatest practitioners of the art form have been using it for a very long time and getting very good results. Sometimes we don't do the process better than nature but we can do something nature can't.

But that's neither here nor there. I want to find out for myself what's best. I just want to know what products they use as I don't know the difference between a Japanese branded tube of traditional cut paste and silly putty

 

[Mash]

I like Waterproof elmers glue. Drys clear looks natural and bark will grow right over it. Basically just seals the dead wood.

 

[0soyoung]

I like Waterproof elmers glue. Drys clear looks natural and bark will grow right over it. Basically just seals the dead wood.

I use the same, but just apply it to the exposed ring of cambium.

 

[PABonsai]

i use these three on japanese maples, depending on the need. my reasoning for initially choosing these three was simple: i didn't have the experience necessary to make a decision for myself, so i contacted a nursery in japan directly, and a student who had studied at another nursery in japan, and I was told that these 3 are what they use on their maples.

I have no complaints so far - they seem to do exactly what i need them to, without causing any issues

i have never pruned even the smallest twig on any of my maples without sealing the cut, so I can't compare sealing vs. not sealing. What I know is that what I am doing now works for two respected nurseries in japan, and seems to be working for me as well as others in my community with much more experience than me. I have never been one to tamper with a good recipe.

Why 3? Do they get used in different circumstances?

 

[just.wing.it]

I have not had good luck with putty types of cut paste nor the thinner ones in the tubes....this year I tried a thin layer of wood glue....we'll see what happens.

 

[River's Edge]

Tree sap and ambient oxygen. Works great. Natural. Easy to use. Starts working instantly. Zero cost. Trees have been doing it since the beginning of time.

Scroll or flip through any modern academic text regarding callus formation in trees and you will find they all say the same thing. It’s obvious everywhere you look in nature and supported by research.

Sealing a wound with paste is the best way to encourage pathogens.

Unrelated facts do not represent a valid argument. Stating how natural healing takes place has nothing to do with how the process is aided by cut paste.

Cut paste properly used promotes faster healing!

That is the reason professionals use cut paste and similar products to get faster and more aesthetically pleasing results.

 

[Sansui]

Thinking out of the box:

 

[Captain.Bonsai]

Unrelated facts do not represent a valid argument. Stating how natural healing takes place has nothing to do with how the process is aided by cut paste.

Cut paste properly used promotes faster healing!

That is the reason professionals use cut paste and similar products to get faster and more aesthetically pleasing results.

This is hilarious to me.

Professional who? Bonsai masters? Passed down through the centuries of bonsai practice? That cultural premise does not trump modern science.

Professional arborists maybe? Nope. They do not carry cut paste by the gallons and slather it all over trees around town.

There have been academic studies on the presence of pathogens in all types of wound environments on trees, plants, etc. It’s been accepted in the scientific community that a sealed wound is more susceptible to disease and inhibits callus formation. I’m not going to pull out the books or do an internet search right now to site references, sorry, consider it an incomplete argument if you like. The literature exists.

 

[River's Edge]

This is hilarious to me.

Professional who? Bonsai masters? Passed down through the centuries of bonsai practice? That cultural premise does not trump modern science.

Professional arborists maybe? Nope. They do not carry cut paste by the gallons and slather it all over trees around town.

There have been academic studies on the presence of pathogens in all types of wound environments on trees, plants, etc. It’s been accepted in the scientific community that a sealed wound is more susceptible to disease and inhibits callus formation. I’m not going to pull out the books or do an internet search right now to site references, sorry, consider it an incomplete argument if you like. The literature exists.

That's ok i can provide you with research to back up some of your statements. The argument is not new nor obscure. ( good summary in Modern Bonsai Practice by Larry Morton ) . 2016 Page

I have also observed the results of using cut paste as opposed to not using it. My observations are that the cuts heal faster and smoother with the application of cut paste. This has been consistent with Pines, Hemlocks and Maples. With experience one learns to adapt the use of sealants to get different results. IE: too thick of coating changes the thickness and coarseness of callus formation.
I have seen the results whe not using it in my nursery and through arborist work in the landscape. I agree cuts will heal without application of any product. The speed with which they heal can vary. I have yet to see any research that was specifically done regarding the practise in Bonsai. Perhaps you could try both ways and see what the results are for your trials with and without!

 

[MrWunderful]

This is hilarious to me.

Professional who? Bonsai masters? Passed down through the centuries of bonsai practice? That cultural premise does not trump modern science.

Professional arborists maybe? Nope. They do not carry cut paste by the gallons and slather it all over trees around town.

There have been academic studies on the presence of pathogens in all types of wound environments on trees, plants, etc. It’s been accepted in the scientific community that a sealed wound is more susceptible to disease and inhibits callus formation. I’m not going to pull out the books or do an internet search right now to site references, sorry, consider it an incomplete argument if you like. The literature exists.

Professional arborists dont care about the appearance of the wound like a bonsai practitioner.

Cut paste makes wounds on my deciduous heal faster. So does vaseline. Many other people have great results with it too.

Its fine if you dont use it, but it definitely works.

 

[Captain.Bonsai]

That's ok i can provide you with research to back up some of your statements. The argument is not new nor obscure. ( good summary in Modern Bonsai Practice by Larry Morton ) . 2016 Page

I have also observed the results of using cut paste as opposed to not using it. My observations are that the cuts heal faster and smoother with the application of cut paste. This has been consistent with Pines, Hemlocks and Maples. With experience one learns to adapt the use of sealants to get different results. IE: too thick of coating changes the thickness and coarseness of callus formation.
I have seen the results whe not using it in my nursery and through arborist work in the landscape. I agree cuts will heal without application of any product. The speed with which they heal can vary. I have yet to see any research that was specifically done regarding the practise in Bonsai. Perhaps you could try both ways and see what the results are for your trials with and without!

A tree is a tree - small or large - biology remains the same. A study regarding bonsai calluses vs full size tree calluses seems unnecessary but I’d read it.

Larry Morton is one reference and he does site specific academic studies. They all say the same thing no matter where you look.

Regardless. I have preferred the results of not using paste. Apparently the glaring results of controlled horticultural experimentation can’t change us all. Agree to disagree.