CYPRESS

[rockm]

where I’m located in South Carolina, the bottle-shaped bases are pond cypress here and I completely agree with you, Rockm, that they are only about one half as hardy and vigorous as bald cypress. Another very interesting observation, at least to me, is that in South Carolina and I suspect the rest of the SouthEast, Pond cypress are only found in Carolina Bays. Whereas, Bald Cypress are found along the rivers, lakes and swampy areas attached to rivers and lakes. I have yet to find any areas where both grow.

Pond cypress is in steep decline here in the Va. tidewater. I've never seen one here in the wild. The article attached says pond cypress has dome shaped knees compared to pyramid shaped BC knees...

The saga of the pond cypress - The Tidewater News

By John Bunch Master Naturalist A few years back I signed up for a project called RareQuest that was a joint partnership between the Master Naturalists and the Department of Conservation & Recreation’s Natural Heritage Program. This was initiated in order to aid DCR in checking the status of...

www.thetidewaternews.com

 

[August44]

The primary reason bald cypress are collected is for an established buttressed root base. I also have never seen decent buttressing on completely container grown BC. Buttressing is built by unrestrained root run, which isn't easy in a container.

BTW, the way BC develop buttressing in the wild is variable, and can be shaped by local environment. Water depth has a lot to do with it. For instance the trees pictured from Lake Caddo are typical of BC growing submerged in shallower water (the water level in Lake Caddo is very low in those photos probably because of drought--have relatives living nearby, so been there a few times). The water level typically covers up to where the knees on the roots begin. In deeper constantly submerged conditions, the root flare can make trunks bottle shaped....

Bald cypress are unique trees and have many interesting characteristics. If you can find an affordable copy, the book "Baldcypress: The Tree Unique, The Wood Eternal" is very much worth having.

So can the same condition be created with a very deep pot and a certain water level?

 

[rockm]

So can the same condition be created with a very deep pot and a certain water level?

No. ANY pot is going to negate buttress development. Buttressing depends on unlimited root run in the ground.

 

[August44]

No. ANY pot is going to negate buttress development. Buttressing depends on unlimited root run in the ground.

Ok so planting in the ground or huge tub or pot ( have both ) with the right soil and moist conditions might work?

 

[rockm]

Ok so planting in the ground or huge tub or pot ( have both ) with the right soil and moist conditions might work?

Planting in the ground and letting it go for ten years will probably build a passable buttress, but it probably won't be comparable to most collected BC. Big tub only restricts root run. The more roots and the more they extend, the more buttress will develop.

The tree below was grown by some friends of mine at the edge of a fish pond from a three inch diameter sapling in about 15 years. Constant supply of water, cool mud to push roots. The tree was sawed out of its location and plunked in the pot. BC can take drastic root reduction at collection.

 

[August44]

Planting in the ground and letting it go for ten years will probably build a passable buttress, but it probably won't be comparable to most collected BC. Big tub only restricts root run. The more roots and the more they extend, the more buttress will develop.

The tree below was grown by some friends of mine at the edge of a fish pond from a three inch diameter sapling in about 15 years. Constant supply of water, cool mud to push roots. The tree was sawed out of its location and plunked in the pot. BC can take drastic root reduction at collection.

So that tree is huge! Can two guys pick that thing up? How tall/wide at base is it if you know. I can see if one want a nice cypress with fluting and buttress, just buy a collected one already equipped with the goods.

 

[August44]

If you removed all of the branches on this tree of Johngs, would it bud back and grow enough branches to be a suitable bonsai? How could one promote more bud back in the condition it is in now verses removing branches? Just learning. Thanks!

 

[rockm]

If you removed all of the branches on this tree of Johngs, would it bud back and grow enough branches to be a suitable bonsai? How could one promote more bud back in the condition it is in now verses removing branches? Just learning. Thanks!

View attachment 468385

Yes. BC backbud pretty vigorously from no branching. Removing a branch, or top, typically results in a profusion of new buds at the cut site or below on the trunk. The species is extremely vigorous in growth. Severe trunk chops resulting in initially bare trunks are how most BC bonsai are created. John G has some photos of his recently collected trees. All are just trunks, no branching.

The base on that huge BC is about 18" to 20". Include the knee and its about 28" or so. It weighs a few hundred pounds and takes three people to move it. My friends are working on developing branching on it, which takes some time, as the most effective branches are developed with severe cutbacks over time. Wiring tends to produce smooth curves, which aren't as effective as the abrupt shifts in direction that cut and grow development produces.

 

[Backwardsvg]

@rockm (I don’t want to derail this thread but it’s very on topic) I have the chance to pick up a big BC can I trunk chop it to get it home then repot this spring or do I need to do both at the same time? I figured if dormant it wouldn’t matter with a little lag?

 

[Cajunrider]

Yes. BC backbud pretty vigorously from no branching. Removing a branch, or top, typically results in a profusion of new buds at the cut site or below on the trunk. The species is extremely vigorous in growth. Severe trunk chops resulting in initially bare trunks are how most BC bonsai are created. John G has some photos of his recently collected trees. All are just trunks, no branching.

The base on that huge BC is about 18" to 20". Include the knee and its about 28" or so. It weighs a few hundred pounds and takes three people to move it. My friends are working on developing branching on it, which takes some time, as the most effective branches are developed with severe cutbacks over time. Wiring tends to produce smooth curves, which aren't as effective as the abrupt shifts in direction that cut and grow development produces.

You ain't kidding that tree is huge. The picture belied its size. I saw the kiddie pool for a pot and recognized how big it is. I have the opportunity to dig up some huge ones but decided against it because I can't handle those behemoths safely and prefers not to have to deal with such beasts.

 

[Cajunrider]

@rockm (I don’t want to derail this thread but it’s very on topic) I have the chance to pick up a big BC can I trunk chop it to get it home then repot this spring or do I need to do both at the same time? I figured if dormant it wouldn’t matter with a little lag?

When we collect a big BC it is trunk AND root chopped to transport home. I don't think a little lag hurt. However, if you transport by plane the temperature in the storage compartment can possibly be an issue albeit not likely. I mentioned that because I once sent a tree through luggage and found the root ball frozen solid when I got it back.

 

[rockm]

When we collect a big BC it is trunk AND root chopped to transport home. I don't think a little lag hurt. However, if you transport by plane the temperature in the storage compartment can possibly be an issue albeit not likely. I mentioned that because I once sent a tree through luggage and found the root ball frozen solid when I got it back.

Roots won't freeze if you take a tree onboard in a carry on. I took a ]three foot tall, four inch diameter trunk collected cedar elm onto a Southwest flight home from Texas once. The bag was huge and stuffed with the tree and damp sphagnum moss. Went through TSA baggage X-ray and security. TSA agents didn't blink an eye...

 

[Backwardsvg]

It’ll be transported by car to same climate. I don’t want to disturb roots as then if have to keep warm till spring. I figured I could chop it now for storage and then repot closer to spring

 

[rockm]

@rockm (I don’t want to derail this thread but it’s very on topic) I have the chance to pick up a big BC can I trunk chop it to get it home then repot this spring or do I need to do both at the same time? I figured if dormant it wouldn’t matter with a little lag?

Depends on where it's coming from and what you have to overwinter it. If the tree is growing where it is now (even with buds only swelling), if you chop it and move it to freezing weather, most likely it will die or die back substantially.

 

[Cajunrider]

Roots won't freeze if you take a tree onboard in a carry on. I took a ]three foot tall, four inch diameter trunk collected cedar elm onto a Southwest flight home from Texas once. The bag was huge and stuffed with the tree and damp sphagnum moss. Went through TSA baggage X-ray and security. TSA agents didn't blink an eye...

But but but if @Backwardsvg gets a 4ft tall one with 7-8"diameter trunk and root flare to 16", he will have a hard time. DAMHIKT

 

[Backwardsvg]

No it’s moving like from 15 mins away. Fully dormant. I’d likely just mulch it in. It’s in a massive grow bag mulched in

 

[rockm]

No it’s moving like from 15 mins away. Fully dormant. I’d likely just mulch it in. It’s in a massive grow bag mulched in

Chop wont' hurt it then. I'd seal the wound up though.

 

[Backwardsvg]

Perfect chop it is then repot before it pops!

 

[Cajunrider]

No it’s moving like from 15 mins away. Fully dormant. I’d likely just mulch it in. It’s in a massive grow bag mulched in

Easy peasy! Take it home. Chop it and put it in your garage where it doesn't experience hard freeze where you are. In the spring take it outside and sleeping beauty(beast) will wake up.

 

[rockm]

Here's another big "trunk only" BC at the same place the other big un lives. This one is about 15-17" inches at the base. All branching is new. This was collected in Fla. a decade ago because of the extreme taper in the warthog of a trunk. The trunk had NO branching when collected.