Mellow Mullet
Masterpiece
Looks like I didn't read down far enough, lol, that pot looks great, too.
Developing a collected BC
- Thread starter markyscott
- Start date
Joe Dupre'
Omono
That apical dominance is amazing on a BC. During the growing season, I'll probably trim ( and try to stunt) the top growth once a week on an established tree. "NO, I don't want you to grow there, dang it! " You just have to keep after it until the bottom branches catch up.
The BC I collected way late in May of 2017 wouldn't stop growing top branches. Even though it was late and the tree needed to grow branches and then roots, I did trim the top branches a couple of times. The tree finally got the message and the bottom branches did grow quite a bit.
The BC I collected way late in May of 2017 wouldn't stop growing top branches. Even though it was late and the tree needed to grow branches and then roots, I did trim the top branches a couple of times. The tree finally got the message and the bottom branches did grow quite a bit.
BillsBayou
Chumono
The tree should not have been placed in a bonsai pot. That has done the most harm to your development. Putting it in a smaller pot is going to further hinder branch development / ramification.
Other issues:
- Branch one extended the growth on top of the branch, not sure of the best way to correct that
- Branch on is also in the back, hmm, cut it off (solves problem one)
- Too tall for the taper you achieve
- Tree doesn't seem to have a top
- Reverse taper, you need to cut it off lower and redevelop the top
- Branch clusters are thickening their bases together, thin that out
- if you don't like a Branch's first nodal gap, cut it back to a more reasonable length, and start again.
I don't know if the tree can move forward if you keep much of what you have now.
If this were my tree, I'd cut off the top 20-30%, cut most branches off, cut the rest shorter, over-pot it into a mason tub, and feed heavily.
Other issues:
- Branch one extended the growth on top of the branch, not sure of the best way to correct that
- Branch on is also in the back, hmm, cut it off (solves problem one)
- Too tall for the taper you achieve
- Tree doesn't seem to have a top
- Reverse taper, you need to cut it off lower and redevelop the top
- Branch clusters are thickening their bases together, thin that out
- if you don't like a Branch's first nodal gap, cut it back to a more reasonable length, and start again.
I don't know if the tree can move forward if you keep much of what you have now.
If this were my tree, I'd cut off the top 20-30%, cut most branches off, cut the rest shorter, over-pot it into a mason tub, and feed heavily.
markyscott
Imperial Masterpiece
No doubt you’re right - there are loads of defects that should be addressed. I’m just having a moment of species disappointment as other trees I’ve been working on far less time are so much farther along. Fast growing, slow developing is how i feel about these trees today. And is the end game is worth all the time and effort? I don’t know - and I hope not to offend. I know you and many others love these trees. Looking back at the ones I’ve admired in the past and the ones I’ve seen in shows and in collections, they just, in all honesty, don’t seem all that developed in comparison with other trees. There was one in the Lake Merrit collection - I didn’t bother to even photograph it - worst tree there by far. This one here is way further along. I think my favorites are Vaughn Bantings trees in the Pacific Rim collection and the National collection. But for forty or so years of work, they really don’t seem all that refined, in all honesty. So I’ll keep a couple always in my collection - they’re just such a fixture here on the Gulf Coast. But I’m not looking to add more - I’d take a good cedar elm any day. In five or six years I’ll be ready to show. Five or six years with a BC and...
S
Hack Yeah!
Omono
I've seen several of your YouTube videos, do you have any threads here which span several years of development as a comparison to your method.
Mellow Mullet
Masterpiece
Actually, growing them in a bonsai pot will work out fine, been growing them out in oil drain pans from the dollar tree for years.
Potawatomi13
Imperial Masterpiece
[BillsBayou]"The tree should not have been placed in a bonsai pot. That has done the most harm to your development."
Trunk could be much bigger with big box or in ground. Obviously in decorative pot does not work
.
Trunk could be much bigger with big box or in ground. Obviously in decorative pot does not work
.
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
He isnt trying to develop a trunk.[BillsBayou]"The tree should not have been placed in a bonsai pot. That has done the most harm to your development."
Trunk could be much bigger with big box or in ground. Obviously in decorative pot does not work
When he says develop he's talking about developing branching.
Maybe you don't know as much as you like to think you know about collecting and collected trees.
I'll help you this one time potty.
When a person collects a tree they collect them for the developed trunk already. See,this way nature has already done the hard work. No waiting for the trunk to develop.
I would have thought with all the sage advice you give out here about collected trees that you already knew this.
Especially after saying you hang out with those great northwest collectors you're always going on about.
If you really do hang out at those places ask one of them if they are developing trunks on collected trees.
markyscott
Imperial Masterpiece
[BillsBayou]"The tree should not have been placed in a bonsai pot. That has done the most harm to your development."
Trunk could be much bigger with big box or in ground. Obviously in decorative pot does not work
That would be absolutely true if I were growing a larger trunk. Glazed pot it was in for the last 5 years was an oversized training pot. It’s fine for building branches - the amount of growth was not the problem.
S
Mellow Mullet
Masterpiece
[BillsBayou]"The tree should not have been placed in a bonsai pot. That has done the most harm to your development."
Trunk could be much bigger with big box or in ground. Obviously in decorative pot does not work
It does with bald cypress.
BillsBayou
Chumono
Well then, a personal attack. Nice of you to pigeonhole yourself. Saves time.
Mostly because you're generalizing my knowledge of "trees". But also because I don't like your adversarial tone. I can give very useful advice about collecting/collected bald cypress. It's the subject of the entire thread.
I also disagree with your statement because there is no mention of the tree's origins beyond a grower who sells. Collecting has nothing to do with this.
But the biggest reason I collect is because the BCs are FREE FREE FREE!
And again, that's not the topic of the thread.
( I needed that )
It just so happens that I have started a multi-year video project where I detail some of what I have learned in 22 years of collecting regarding the development of the roots and TRUNKS of collected bald cypress. I will also go into, and quote, the scientific research giving credence to the techniques.
I'm sure I'll have a pocketful of topics, but I never know where inspiration will pop up and give me more.
Now I have you to thank. I will have to quote you when I explain why collecting bald cypress isn't all about what nature has done, but what you can do to surpass nature. I will cite your statements, verbatim or with a screen shot, as either "This One Guy" or "Some Individuals Of Limited Vision." If, in a few years, you hear me say that, or worse, you can get a warm fuzzy feeling knowing I am referencing you. I do appreciate you saying all of this, by the way. It gives me a position to disprove. Viewers love conflict and drama.
You will note, I have done nothing to defend my position on the use of over-potting as a branch development strategy for bald cypress. You are so far off the mark when it comes to what I said, the topic of the entire thread, and polite conversational skills, that I felt compelled to amuse myself.
Finally, what's telling about your post is the basis of your post: How you feel about me and my skill set with respect to collecting. You brought in a lot of background knowledge (mostly wrong) about me. You changed the topic to collecting care. And you gave it your best to prove me wrong. I am not wrong I'm assuming that you have some personal problem with me. If that's the case, you're better off ignoring me, rather than hijacking someone else's thread. Just two days ago, I posted a notice about my latest video being up. If you want to show that I don't know as much as I think I do, that is a WONDERFUL place to attack my skills. You have my entire video library at your disposal. I'm certain I said things in my earlier videos that was crap advice. Go find it. Find me in either the video announcement threads I post or in the comments section of the videos themselves. I welcome the opportunity to discuss the ways in which I have failed you. Hope to see you soon!
The word "trunk" doesn't appear in my response. My advice isn't given to develop the trunk. Over-potting or planting in the ground has other purposes.
I agree.
I disagree.
Mostly because you're generalizing my knowledge of "trees". But also because I don't like your adversarial tone. I can give very useful advice about collecting/collected bald cypress. It's the subject of the entire thread.
I also disagree with your statement because there is no mention of the tree's origins beyond a grower who sells. Collecting has nothing to do with this.
I'm thinking I should fell maligned, but I have no idea why.
I love definitive statements. They're so beautifully black and white. I try to avoid them unless I am certain I am right. For example, me saying: "You are wrong." Developed trunks are only one of several reasons to collect a tree. I do collect because of developed trunks. I also collect for what I know how to do to the trunk that nature might never do to that specific tree. I want to supplant nature. I want it to look like what nature did to other trees. "Step back, Momma, I'm taking over." That's the level of arrogance found in many of our aspirations and techniques.
But the biggest reason I collect is because the BCs are FREE FREE FREE!
And again, that's not the topic of the thread.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!!!
( I needed that )
I hang out with great SOUTHEAST collectors. I live in New Orleans. That makes you 180° wrong.
Long-time friend, and current president of the Greater New Orleans Bonsai Society, Randy Bennett has been doing bonsai in New Orleans since the 70s. He has been collecting bald cypress for nearly as long. He has a collected bald cypress for which he has applied bald-cypress-specific techniques to fatten the base and grow 23 knees.
It just so happens that I have started a multi-year video project where I detail some of what I have learned in 22 years of collecting regarding the development of the roots and TRUNKS of collected bald cypress. I will also go into, and quote, the scientific research giving credence to the techniques.
I'm sure I'll have a pocketful of topics, but I never know where inspiration will pop up and give me more.
Now I have you to thank. I will have to quote you when I explain why collecting bald cypress isn't all about what nature has done, but what you can do to surpass nature. I will cite your statements, verbatim or with a screen shot, as either "This One Guy" or "Some Individuals Of Limited Vision." If, in a few years, you hear me say that, or worse, you can get a warm fuzzy feeling knowing I am referencing you. I do appreciate you saying all of this, by the way. It gives me a position to disprove. Viewers love conflict and drama.
You will note, I have done nothing to defend my position on the use of over-potting as a branch development strategy for bald cypress. You are so far off the mark when it comes to what I said, the topic of the entire thread, and polite conversational skills, that I felt compelled to amuse myself.
Finally, what's telling about your post is the basis of your post: How you feel about me and my skill set with respect to collecting. You brought in a lot of background knowledge (mostly wrong) about me. You changed the topic to collecting care. And you gave it your best to prove me wrong. I am not wrong I'm assuming that you have some personal problem with me. If that's the case, you're better off ignoring me, rather than hijacking someone else's thread. Just two days ago, I posted a notice about my latest video being up. If you want to show that I don't know as much as I think I do, that is a WONDERFUL place to attack my skills. You have my entire video library at your disposal. I'm certain I said things in my earlier videos that was crap advice. Go find it. Find me in either the video announcement threads I post or in the comments section of the videos themselves. I welcome the opportunity to discuss the ways in which I have failed you. Hope to see you soon!
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markyscott
Imperial Masterpiece
Bill - with respect and before this blows up into something I had no intention of happening. I think Mike’s comments were directed toward another individual.
S
LanceMac10
Imperial Masterpiece
No, the guy that talks like Yoda, over there.....really, I'm not kidding. At least you do a bunch of video's ......but might have missed a couple key passages in these few messages posted.
BillsBayou
Chumono
Hack Yeah!
Omono
And in this corner , the Rajun Cajun from bald Cypress nayshun
Hack Yeah!
Omono
Lol, so onward
Bill, you've experienced ramification is accelerated by keeping in larger pots? Standing water?
Bill, you've experienced ramification is accelerated by keeping in larger pots? Standing water?
Mellow Mullet
Masterpiece
Me to Scott, he was referring to Potawatomi 13, whom he was calling "potty".
Mellow Mullet
Masterpiece
Hang tight @markyscott , there is some hope. I was wiring out my BCs today and I have been able to achieve some decent branching on my clump. At least IMHO, lol, or maybe it is the bourbon.
Here the clump, I only had time to wire one of the trees in it today, hope to get the other two tomorrow.
Here is some of the branching, it is difficult to photograph, I hope you can see it.
Here the clump, I only had time to wire one of the trees in it today, hope to get the other two tomorrow.
Here is some of the branching, it is difficult to photograph, I hope you can see it.
markyscott
Imperial Masterpiece
That’s coming along MM. I think what would help me the most is to see one example of a refined Bald Cypress. Something not in leaf and with good detailed ramification. We’ve been working these trees for a good half century now, so there must be one that we would say sets the bar for the species in terms of branch structure and refinement. Now we all know that these trees can have fantastic trunks - thats not what I’m talking about. I want to see something with great branch structure that let’s me know the end game is worth fighting for.
As a reference, I know Trident Maple, Japanese White Pine, American Elm and Winged Elm can do this (sorry, I could only find a picture of Suthin’s fantastic elm in leaf).
What is the tree that sets the bar in terms of refined branch structure for Bald Cypress?
Scott
Mellow Mullet
Masterpiece
I know what you mean, I, too, like you mentioned, suffer from species disappointment. I, too, have yet to see one that is highly refined, even the most famous ones from Banting and others look like all the other ones that are just a few years old. I think that Guy Guidry has come the closest, some of his were pretty nice. I see a lot that are cut out of the swamp and chopped, then something resembling an osprey nest is grown on top passed off as amazing. For me it is not so. I would like to see one like your examples above, highly refined.
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