Don't really like Japanese Black Pines

[Adair M]

While I like them I have found them intimidating. More so than deciduous trees or junipers. However, with a good bit of reading and listening to Adair and others here, I felt confident enough to buy this one from a local club member. One day when Adair is doing one of his classes at Plant City I plan on joining in.

That one has potential. It may the angle the picture was taken from, it appears a bit top heavy.


For stability, I think I might choose a different style pot. Nanban perhaps?

 

[Adair M]

Great idea. Where is Plant City?

Clermont, GA

 

[Adair M]

While I like them I have found them intimidating. More so than deciduous trees or junipers. However, with a good bit of reading and listening to Adair and others here, I felt confident enough to buy this one from a local club member. One day when Adair is doing one of his classes at Plant City I plan on joining in.

Looking at how that’s wired in, that may have been a Kinji tree. I don’t like the way he runs wires over the top of the roots, then has clear plastic tubing to protect the roots. That method was the state of the art 30 years ago! Did you get that from Dudley? I can show you a better way to wire trees into pots.

 

[one_bonsai]

They seem to be THEE tree to have if you are a true bonsai person. To me, the foliage always seems to look too large for the tree.

Exactly the same reason I don't like them. I rarely see pines that look like believable trees. That's why I just ignore them.

 

[kale]

Looking at how that’s wired in, that may have been a Kinji tree. I don’t like the way he runs wires over the top of the roots, then has clear plastic tubing to protect the roots. That method was the state of the art 30 years ago! Did you get that from Dudley? I can show you a better way to wire trees into pots.

I’d like to learn the proper way if you don’t mind sharing!

 

[Adair M]

I’d like to learn the proper way if you don’t mind sharing!

I think @markyscott created a thread with pictures documenting a good procedure.

 

[cmeg1]

I have half a dozen I bought from you almost exactly a year ago, and honestly, I have done nothing but grown them on. They are super healthy and I will study them well this winter.

I hve a bit of pruning to do so no knobs

 

[coachspinks]

Looking at how that’s wired in, that may have been a Kinji tree. I don’t like the way he runs wires over the top of the roots, then has clear plastic tubing to protect the roots. That method was the state of the art 30 years ago! Did you get that from Dudley? I can show you a better way to wire trees into pots.

This one was in Dennis' collection. I don't know where he originally got it from. I typically don't wire it that way either.

 

[coachspinks]

That one has potential. It may the angle the picture was taken from, it appears a bit top heavy.


For stability, I think I might choose a different style pot. Nanban perhaps?

I am going to try to take some better pictures this weekend. After I looked at the picture I realized the angle was really bad because the tree is much nicer in person. I'm just a terrible photographer.
I agree on the pot. That is what I was thinking as well. That may be on the to do list for the spring.

 

[Clicio]

I think @markyscott created a thread with pictures documenting a good procedure.

Unfortunately I can't find the thread, but I remember it very well. @markyscott help!

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

My JBP respond to bonsai techniques in the worst way imaginable.
Watering turns them yellow. Not watering turns them brown.
Repotting kills them, not repotting kills them.
The cold ravages them, the summer heat does too.

Thankfully they respond the same with pruning and no pruning: overall weakness and declining health.

A true king of bonsai and I'm the court jestor.
No thanks.

I killed my last bunch this fall. No more JBP for me. But I love seeing yours and I blame my lack of liking to the pure incompatibility of me and JBP.

 

[clem]

My JBP respond to bonsai techniques in the worst way imaginable.
Watering turns them yellow. Not watering turns them brown.
Repotting kills them, not repotting kills them.
The cold ravages them, the summer heat does too.

Thankfully they respond the same with pruning and no pruning: overall weakness and declining health.

A true king of bonsai and I'm the court jestor.
No thanks.

I killed my last bunch this fall. No more JBP for me. But I love seeing yours and I blame my lack of liking to the pure incompatibility of me and JBP.

wow it is strange that you cannot grow JBP. Do you have succes with other pine specie ? if yes, i don't understand why you can't grow JBP

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

wow it is strange that you cannot grow JBP. Do you have succes with other pine specie ? if yes, i don't understand why you can't grow JBP

I don't understand it either. I have sylvestris, JRP, longaeva, banksiana, ponderosa, mugo, nigra, halepensis and they all do OK. JBP just isn't for me.

 

[Adair M]

This one was in Dennis' collection. I don't know where he originally got it from. I typically don't wire it that way either.

Dennis is also a Kinji student.

 

[coachspinks]

Dennis is also a Kinji student.

Ah, that makes sense. Ironically, Kinji's place is only 10 minutes from my house. I have only been there once though.

 

[clem]

I don't understand it either. I have sylvestris, JRP, longaeva, banksiana, ponderosa, mugo, nigra, halepensis and they all do OK. JBP just isn't for me.

tbh sylvestris is more interesting than JBP to my personnal taste, because it has rough & deep bark (like the JBP) and it has subtle ramifications and small needles (like the JWP).. so for me, pinus sylvestris brings together the best characteristics of JBP (deep bark) & JWP (fine ramifs & small needles)

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

tbh sylvestris is more interesting than JBP to my personnal taste, because it has rough & deep bark (like the JBP) and it has subtle ramifications and small needles (like the JWP).. so for me, pinus sylvestris brings together the best characteristics of JBP (deep bark) & JWP (fine ramifs & small needles)

Check out the italian ones, or the Norwegian/Norsk type; even more ramification and even smaller needles!
It takes a long time for good bark to form though. Especially the deep fissured stuff.

 

[markyscott]

Unfortunately I can't find the thread, but I remember it very well. @markyscott help!

I think @markyscott created a thread with pictures documenting a good procedure.

Unsure. I think I remember writing about in on one thread or another. But I know that Jonas has a great article on the topic.

How to secure bonsai in the pot - Bonsai Tonight

Step-by-step instructions for securing bonsai into pots with one, two, three or four drainage holes. This is article 7 of a 10 part series for beginners.

bonsaitonight.com

 

[clem]

Check out the italian ones, or the Norwegian/Norsk type; even more ramification and even smaller needles!
It takes a long time for good bark to form though. Especially the deep fissured stuff.

I'd say the same time as JBP from my personal observation.. and the very deep bark like JBP "corticosa" you can find it sometime in the wild but you'll never have it in a pot from a young tree, because mountains weather/particular soil bring something different, impossible to reproduce in a pot

 

[markyscott]

Check out the italian ones, or the Norwegian/Norsk type; even more ramification and even smaller needles!
It takes a long time for good bark to form though. Especially the deep fissured stuff.

Gulf Coast pine choices are pretty much limited to what can grow under fairly tropical conditions. In terms of imports, the ones I’m aware of that work here are Pinus thunbergii (JBP), Pinus densiflora (JRP), Pinus halepensis (Aleppo pine) and Pinus canariensis (Canary Island pine). Then there are the natives to the pineywoods of East Texas, the loblolly and shortleaf pine (a close relative of the loblolly). JBP and JRP are the only ones I’ve seen successfully adapted to bonsai culture. Ive worked with loblolly and aleppo and I know others have as well. I’d say the jury is still out, but there might be some promise there. I know one or two people that have tried without luck to grow virginia, bristlecone, ponderosa and 2 needle piñon, as well as a number of others.

- S