Dumb Question: How Does Bonsai Progress?

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I'm sure this is a dumb question, but I figure this is the place for it. So I've been watching a variety of videos about bonsai and they seem to fall into two categories: 1. Trimming up a small specimen so it's roots and a leader, in preparation for its future growth. 2. Taking a pre-established tree and refining it in this or that way.

What I don't understand is how it gets from point 1 to point 2 and what's in between? It seems like I can learn how to prepare a thing that looks like a bendy twig, or to work on something big. But I don't get the progression at all - I know a lot of it takes years to develop, but I'd love to know what it looks like and what should be done in between. How does the bendy twig turn into branching (say, on a field maple or something like that), thick stems, and a full tree?

I guess what I'm asking is, what does the tree experience as a "tween" tree?
 

bonsaichile

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Use the search function on this site and read progressiob threads. There's a lot of them, many detailing what's done to a tree over a number of years. It should give you a good idea of what's involved in developing a tree
 

rockm

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I'm sure this is a dumb question, but I figure this is the place for it. So I've been watching a variety of videos about bonsai and they seem to fall into two categories: 1. Trimming up a small specimen so it's roots and a leader, in preparation for its future growth. 2. Taking a pre-established tree and refining it in this or that way.

What I don't understand is how it gets from point 1 to point 2 and what's in between? It seems like I can learn how to prepare a thing that looks like a bendy twig, or to work on something big. But I don't get the progression at all - I know a lot of it takes years to develop, but I'd love to know what it looks like and what should be done in between. How does the bendy twig turn into branching (say, on a field maple or something like that), thick stems, and a full tree?

I guess what I'm asking is, what does the tree experience as a "tween" tree?
First, no bonsai is ever "finished." That they are made from living organisms means they are always changing. Don't make the mistake of assuming that the small specimen being trimmed to shape stays that way.

What you're getting at, I think, is how an undeveloped tree is developed. The answer can take many paths--bonsai can be developed from larger trees (reduced through hard pruning and redevelopment of apex and branches) grown from seed (which entails years of careful top and bottom pruning), or an already-established bonsai can undergo a drastic redesign. Branching is developed in many ways, through hard pruning and wiring over the years.

The journey from raw stock to bonsai is measure in decades, or even centuries, depending on the source of the material being worked on. Old and old-looking trees collected in the wild and reduced can take less time to develop since they can have a thousand years of growing time in the wild behind them. A nursery grown sapling could take the same time, but it won't be as convincing as a bonsai for a very long time compared to the wild collected tree.

Here are two photos of a collected oak that I've been working on for the last 25 years. I post this a lot to show how collected deciduous trees can grow from basically a stump... The tree was initially dug up in Texas in the 1990's. It was over 20 feet tall when the collector found it growing in a tangle of chaparral in Central Texas. The trunk was sawed off to two feet and the roots were reduced to get it into a container. I counted the annual growth rings in the stump (the hollowed out area at the base that had previously had a clean cut) and got to 260 before the rings became too dense to count accurately....Note the growth of the apex branch as well as the branching. All were developed from a bare trunk. The tree is seen on the right as it is now. The journey to get to that image took 25 years and it is still not finished, as it requires hard pruning on the branches to stimulate interior branches.
 

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Thanks to everyone for your responses! I'm such a beginner that I'm mainly spending time learning about the whole process. Each video or post is kind of a snapshot of a particular moment in a tree's life, but it can be hard to track from point A to point B (and not get overwhelmed by the details at least at first!). I've read several books and watched many videos, but it's almost like there's some kind of magic trick that happens along the way!

Most likely, I'm going to start with some yardadori and see what happens over time. So basically, I think what'll happen is that I dig them up, pot them up, make sure that they transition to the new circumstances well, and then make some judicious chops a year or two down the line. But to convince myself to pot up some "weeds" I'm hoping to have a bit of a plan for the development over several seasons!
 

BobbyLane

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put simply, a tree is a living organism, it grows, it progresses by growing, ever seen a timelapse of an old Oak tree in nature, from acorn to tree. bonsai are manipulated trees that progress because they keep growing, no magic tricks;)
start by studying progression threads and how trees grow in the wild.
 

Kanorin

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Not a dumb question! You have picked up on the fact that many books and guides give concrete advice on how to take a bonsai and refine it into a better bonsai. There are also a handful that discuss how to select nursery stock and make that first big chop and choose a new leader. But there are very few resources that I have found (some of the progressions threads on this site being a rare exception) that go into details about those next few years of building taper, healing wounds, and getting those primary and secondary branches set up on the right path. I too am trying to figure it out.
 

BobbyLane

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Not a dumb question! You have picked up on the fact that many books and guides give concrete advice on how to take a bonsai and refine it into a better bonsai. There are also a handful that discuss how to select nursery stock and make that first big chop and choose a new leader. But there are very few resources that I have found (some of the progressions threads on this site being a rare exception) that go into details about those next few years of building taper, healing wounds, and getting those primary and secondary branches set up on the right path. I too am trying to figure it out.
bonsai4me have an entire website which includes this type of info, plus Harry has documented countless progressions over his time in bonsai. maybe someone can point you in the direction of another trunk growing article by Brent evergreen gardenworks. the net is packed with info, you just have to get specific with the google search and put some hours in. Walter palls blog is another one where one can find dozens of progression. I just googled hornbeam bonsai progression and 34,000 reults came up :)
 
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BobbyLane, thanks for the information - some good stuff there.

I have definitely Google searched, but (as usual!) only about 100 of the 34,000 results is actually worthwhile, relevant, and not just some kind of robot-written vague SEO troll article - so I much appreciate the specific sites and articles to check out. Verified as useful by someone like you all is worth a lot!
 

rockm

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Not a dumb question! You have picked up on the fact that many books and guides give concrete advice on how to take a bonsai and refine it into a better bonsai. There are also a handful that discuss how to select nursery stock and make that first big chop and choose a new leader. But there are very few resources that I have found (some of the progressions threads on this site being a rare exception) that go into details about those next few years of building taper, healing wounds, and getting those primary and secondary branches set up on the right path. I too am trying to figure it out.
There are dozens of sources that go into detail about all of this--BOOKS go into detail. Yeah, they're old. No, they're not online. Additionally there are also vids and photo essays online that do it as well. Do a search on collecting bald cypress for bonsai, for instance.

One of the most valuable books to me in understanding the process of using a big nursery/wild grown tree for bonsai was "Bonsai Masterclass" published in 1993. It's dated now as far as it goes for soils, etc. BUT it has a chapter on the process of making bonsai from larger stock, including progression photos of using chainsaws to shorten trunk on big trees, etc.
 

BobbyLane

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There are dozens of sources that go into detail about all of this--BOOKS go into detail. Yeah, they're old. No, they're not online. Additionally there are also vids and photo essays online that do it as well. Do a search on collecting bald cypress for bonsai, for instance.

One of the most valuable books to me in understanding the process of using a big nursery/wild grown tree for bonsai was "Bonsai Masterclass" published in 1993. It's dated now as far as it goes for soils, etc. BUT it has a chapter on the process of making bonsai from larger stock, including progression photos of using chainsaws to shorten trunk on big trees, etc.
Its all out there Rock, if ones 'serious' it will easily be found, very quickly. just takes a bit of time and effort to absorb it all.
 

AJL

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It starts at the beginning. Just start. The future will take care of itself.
Realistically, most people of my generation started with a book or two.
It never ceases to amaze me how many people nowawadays never even think to look at a book first and just expect to find all the truth online from un proven sources!!!!
 

BobbyLane

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It never ceases to amaze me how many people nowawadays never even think to look at a book first and just expect to find all the truth online from un proven sources!!!!
Most expect to find the answers in one post.
 

AJL

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Too many Lazy B........s havent got the ability to think or search for themselves these days !
 
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Well, apologies if my question was dumb.. You were forewarned, after all! I have indeed read several books on the topic, but haven't found the right one.
 
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BobbyLane

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Well, I'll try to keep my ignorant questions to myself, I suppose. I figured the "New to Bonsai" section was safe for asking this kind of question, but apologies if I was incorrect on the nature of this forum. (To your point: I have indeed read a few books but suppose I haven't found the one that's clear on this bit.)
sure. just keep going
 

ABCarve

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rockm

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Well, apologies if my question was dumb.. You were forewarned, after all! I have indeed read several books on the topic, but haven't found the right one.
not a dumb question. Asking the right question is not an easy task in this hobby. A search on "trunk chop" will pull up some interesting progression threads here.
 
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