Eastern White Pine Projects

[fourteener]

Here are two Eastern White Pine that I am attempting as bonsai. The first one I planted in this rock. It's like a gray version of lava rock. A masonry bit will hollow out a nice space very well. I was able to get a couple of drainage holes to go all the way through. This tree has been in this rock for about three years now. It always seemed like a the rock and tree were two separate commodities. The point of putting it in the rock was to give an impression of real life.

Like other pines I started the process of some serious twisting. I would do more, but I have a half day with Suthin Sukosolvisit in August and am saving some inspiration for my time with him.

As Bonsai, white pine will never get plates of bark. I am hoping the twisting will make it interesting in a different way.



This tree was found in a gravel slide alongside a railroad. It too with never be great because of a big thick trunk. But this tree reminds me of a Salvadore Dali painting and I can't wait to style it up. I hope this summer's growth will bring it to good health so I can work it. It's recovery seems pretty slow however. The reason it's in such a small pot is that when I gathered it out of the gravel slide (kinda like earth's grow box), it was filled with fine roots.

I wouldn't mind doing something strange and arsty with it. Dave Crust I need you!!

 

[mc4mc44]

I like them both, they're unique. The second one reminds me of the tripods from War of the worlds. Was the first one originally collected too?

Keep us updated on these, I'm curious to see how Eastern White pine react to bonsai culture. I've only seen a couple in pictures, their so uncommon.

 

[fourteener]

I like them both, their unique. The second one reminds me of the tripods from World at War. Was the first one originally collected too?

Keep us updated on these, I'm curious to see how Eastern White pine react to bonsai culture. I've only seen a couple in pictures, their so uncommon.

The first one was originally collected and didn't show much sign of progress. Come to think of it, it also took a while to revive after collection. The year I finally had any idea for it was the year it sat under an 8 foot pile of snow. It got smashed, but when it sprang back up, it was kind of interesting.

So far it has responded very well. Every other year I wire it out, pinch candles and watch it backbud with vigor.

In nature I see a lot of random branch die-back. That could be a problem. But maybe bonsai care means it will do better. We'll see. I think the bigger reason for limited use in the world of bonsai, is the terribly boring bark that won't even begin to be interesting until a tree is 50 years old and 2 feet in diameter. Not much hope for a bonsai. That's why I'm going for the interesting shape instead.

 

[Mbpauley]

Two interesting projects you've got there. I have zero experience with this species, and don't really have input on the rock planting since it seems to be on its way already. Looks like it will be nice.

The second tree, however, has got me thinking. If you are going for an image that isn't really even remotely traditional, I personally like the last pic the most. This is just because I can see that the tree seems to have a pretty severe lean and it may be awkward having it jut so quickly either towards or away from the viewer. With the tree leaning to the left, you also have that cool little loop in the trunk that is kind of mimicked by the arching root in the back. I imagine that you could possibly even apply a little wire to that root to give it some extra movement. It might look even better if you were to let it grow for couple years just to give those roots some extra girth.

 

[Emrys]

I by no means want to hijack this thread. But I am very excited to see these trees and this thread develop. We all know that even a slightly decent Eastern White Pine is rare. Instead of starting a different thread right now I want to add one I collected last spring to this thread and include its progress over time. I think a discussion on these could be of interest to some. Or not?? But here it is. I found this growing on a very flat rock and was able to pick it right up along with a mat of fine roots . I just had to cut one tap root and that was that. It grew well last year and has been very vigorous this so fare. I have no idea how to estimate its age. It's not very big but the lowest part of the trunk right above the soil level is starting to show some age and texture.







Fourteener if you want me to take this down I will.

 

[fourteener]

It's all part of the discussion, so no problem.

I'm sure that part of the reason these trees are seldom used is that it will never get the kind of bark that a scots pine will get even when immature. The advantage is the extreme flexibility, you can make it do almost anything at this point. It's a great example of making the most of what a species gives you. I would suggest coming up with a plan of movement for this tree. You'll never get flaky bark, if you develop this tree hoping you can make it happen, you'll spend 20 years and be disappointed.

This tree also requires a lot of wiring. The foliage thickens and about every 2-3 years I have to thin it out, wire out the pads to let the sun in. It backbuds very well when I do it.

I give them a year off once in awhile, just to grow unchecked. I think that has helped a lot.

 

[0soyoung]

It's all part of the discussion, so no problem.

I'm sure that part of the reason these trees are seldom used is that it will never get the kind of bark that a scots pine will get even when immature. The advantage is the extreme flexibility, you can make it do almost anything at this point. It's a great example of making the most of what a species gives you. I would suggest coming up with a plan of movement for this tree. You'll never get flaky bark, if you develop this tree hoping you can make it happen, you'll spend 20 years and be disappointed.

This tree also requires a lot of wiring. The foliage thickens and about every 2-3 years I have to thin it out, wire out the pads to let the sun in. It backbuds very well when I do it.

I think the strong point of EWPs is their light airy foliage - almost etherial. As you've said repeatedly, bark is not a strength of EWPs, so my design ideal is along the lines of the classic japanese pine foliage teepee and japanese maple canopies - the trunk and branches are only seen through the 'gauze' of foliage.

But, you are way ahead of me.

 

[Emrys]

I agree on the ethereal statement but I do wonder how well the needles reduce and what methods should be employed. With all this seasonally appropriate talk of candle pruning and needle plucking I have been wondering what species should be used as a guide. JWP? This is part of the discussion I'm interested in seeing develop here.

 

[mc4mc44]

Might as well give my 2 cents here...

I think the reason EWP is rarely used is because old ones with bark are hard to find in the wild. EWP either grow happily in the forest, or they don't grow at all. They can't survive in the rocky, exposed crags on mountainsides that would make for an interesting tree. In these conditions an EWP just dies. In my wanderings i rarely see small, old EWP. I've seen ones that were easily 200+ years old, but they were 10' tall. They were growing in a boulder field, with the roots going all the way to a creek running through the boulders below. EWP love water, because of this dry mountainsides aren't their thing. They can survive there, but not for long. If they're on the mountainside, they're rarely collectible because the roots run forever. I know of a bog where they grow slow and stay small, but they are taper-less 3' tall twigs, with absolutely no movement and aren't past 2" diameter. Also, unless the tree has some age to it they have long internodes, and the needles don't really reduce.

Considering everything, I think it's a good species to play with, but not one of the best around. Even though the bark doesn't get plates, it still has a nice color and look to it. The needles have a nice color, and the length isn't a problem unless you make it one. The needles on a ponderosa are usually longer.

Just to prove that they actually can get bark when old enough, and small old ones do exist if you know where to look for them, here is an EWP from (i think) the NC arboretum. The thing is, you have to find a tree that already has bark, then it's worth growing. Like fourteener say's, they don't get bark in a pot.

 

[amkhalid]

Eastern white pine can indeed be found stunted, growing in solid rock, and with excellent bark, sometimes plated in extreme cases (although usually just in the lower part of the trunk, even in a 100+ year old yamadori). But they are very rare like that. One guy in the Toronto area was a pretty infamous collector of jack pine, larch, cedar, and eastern white pine. He was a forestry professor at UofT and had an intimate knowledge of the Ontario landscape. He collected all the best EWP around (not to mention all of the best Jack Pine) way out in the middle of nowhere... which means something coming from a Canadian. I think you need to spend your life exploring the landscape as this man did in order to find good EWP. Not worth the effort for such a fussy species.

There are quite a few ancient yamadori EWPs in the Toronto area. Most are unstable as bonsai, not backbudding at all and constantly fighting with some sort of needle cast issue that prevents them from looking good all year round. I had the opportunity to buy one this spring and passed on it, solely because it is EWP. Sorry to sound like a buzz kill. They are a stunning tree in nature so it is natural to want to grow them in a bonsai collection, but they are recalcitrant to the process.

 

[jk_lewis]

Needles reduce OK. This work-in-progress is 11 inches tall.

Adding the shari made the trunk look a bit older.

And yes, that white pine is at the NC Arboretum in Asheville. The pic is mine and I've posted it here (I think) or on the IBC, where I assume you got it.

 

[mc4mc44]

Needles reduce OK. This work-in-progress is 11 inches tall.

Adding the shari made the trunk look a bit older.

And yes, that white pine is at the NC Arboretum in Asheville. The pic is mine and I've posted it here (I think) or on the IBC, where I assume you got it.

Well, i should probably say thanks for the picture then.
And i like your pine. The shari really adds to it.

 

[M. Frary]

This a picture of an EWP I collected this spring. The tree is around 10" tall. Got it on the edge of a swamp. If you look close the bark is just starting to get a little rough at the lower trunk.

 

[fourteener]

View attachment 37753
This a picture of an EWP I collected this spring. The tree is around 10" tall. Got it on the edge of a swamp. If you look close the bark is just starting to get a little rough at the lower trunk.

That is some very compact foliage for an EWP. Animals keep it trimmed and compact? Looks good.

 

[MrFancyPlants]

Here is my EWP. Far from professional, but the needles have reduced in it's third year since repotting. I'm not sure if it due or if I should Let it go another year or two. Most have advised to grow it out in the ground some more, which i haven't ruled out, but i like to have a design in mind before i just let it grow. The bark isn't flakey, but at least it isn't green anymore.

 

[mc4mc44]

Although this isn't a bonsai, it's sort of become an EWP thread now. So, if it's OK with Fourteener, i'll leave this here.

This is the largest EWP I personally know of. I've been all around the east, but I've never seen a bigger one that was a single trunk in person. I know there are much bigger ones in existence, but this one isn't on the registry, so i think it's special since it's unknown. I'm emailing the forestry department right now about it, so i thought i would share it here too.

Thats my old man for scale, we estimated the tree at 6' diameter at 4' off the ground. So, there is a chance this is one of the largest EWP in PA.

I'll let you all know what kind of reply i get, and if i actually found something here.

 

[Jason_mazzy]

Although this isn't a bonsai, it's sort of become an EWP thread now. So, if it's OK with Fourteener, i'll leave this here.

This is the largest EWP I personally know of. I've been all around the east, but I've never seen a bigger one that was a single trunk in person. I know there are much bigger ones in existence, but this one isn't on the registry, so i think it's special since it's unknown. I'm emailing the forestry department right now about it, so i thought i would share it here too.

Thats my old man for scale, we estimated the tree at 6' diameter at 4' off the ground. So, there is a chance this is one of the largest EWP in PA.

I'll let you all know what kind of reply i get, and if i actually found something here.

Holy heck that's a tall pine to be undiscovered lol. Good luck and tell them you want to name it.

 

[billthornton]

wow! really like what you have done with them,can i get some more recent pictures.
if you have time to upload them.
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[MrFancyPlants]

That big one reminds me of the lore that states that most of the tall straight ones were cut down for ship masts a couple hundred years ago.

 

[jk_lewis]

Co-national champion eastern white pines, both in Michigan, are 201 and 181 feet tall.