Eric Schrader's JBP From Seed Contest Entry

[Eric Schrader]

Hi All,

I can't resist, somehow I'm addicted to growing them, even though I already have too many JBP in my yard...they're crowding out space from some great other species. So, here's my contest entry.

1. Seeds collected by Jonas Dupuich of Bonsai tonight from our favorite landscape tree, dried, and given to me in December.
You can see him doing this in this post (which is not these exact seeds, this is from a couple years ago): https://bonsaitonight.com/2016/08/17/grow-japanese-black-pine-seed/


Above image is time-stamped Jan 12th, 2018.

2. I soaked the seeds in a cup of water, only two sank to the bottom after two days, but I planted them all anyway.

More to come.

 

[barrosinc]

you should read this post with some good info https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/a-few-pine-seeds-6-years-later.7033/

 

[DirkvanDreven]

Great that you join this competition!

 

[Eric Schrader]

Looks like I will get only 5 seedlings. Of course, a few days ago I thought it would be only 2, so there's still room for surprises.

 

[plant_dr]

Looks like I will get only 5 seedlings. Of course, a few days ago I thought it would be only 2, so there's still room for surprises.

That's five more than me!

 

[RobertB]

Looks like I will get only 5 seedlings. Of course, a few days ago I thought it would be only 2, so there's still room for surprises.

Any progress on these?

 

[my nellie]

I would like to ask you @Eric Schrader what is the lowest temperature which the pine seedlings can safely handle during their 1st winter.
At your 10 zone would you overwinter them outside under some protection?
And if positive, what is the kind of protection you would give them?
Thank you in advance!

P.S.: I am trying to collect info from some members (h. zone similar to mine) which I can use for my own seedlings as this is the first time I am growing pine seeds.

 

[Eric Schrader]

I would like to ask you @Eric Schrader what is the lowest temperature which the pine seedlings can safely handle during their 1st winter.
At your 10 zone would you overwinter them outside under some protection?
And if positive, what is the kind of protection you would give them?

I don't provide any winter protection whatsoever. But, I know that colder climates need it for JBP. I'm not sure about the threshold temp though. Hope you found an answer!

 

[Eric Schrader]

Update and a few photos. There were 5 seedlings from this past spring. Growth in the pot was not super vigorous but they're healthy and good buds for the coming year. I separated them out, (hadn't done seedling cutting technique) and teased apart the roots. Then I wired them all and planted in baskets and pots. Three will be exposed root, two will probably be informal upright...but sometimes it's hard to tell right now!


That's it for now!

 

[RobertB]

nice

 

[PeaceLoveBonsai]

Thanks for sharing! Quick question, I understand the process on the exposed root, but am unfamiliar with the strategy being used for the informal uprights. Is the idea that by wiring in this way, you will have more room for the roots to grow down, which will create more vigorous growth up?

I would think one would want roots to spread out in a radial fashion, but it appears that the 4 inch black plastic pot will force the roots downward instead.

I’m not arguing, to be sure, just interested in your method.

Could you explain a bit (or maybe you have in a blog post) your thought process.

Thanks again!

 

[Eric Schrader]

Hi, the problem with spreading out roots is that they end up too flat. The base of the tree wants to taper outward, but it's not good if the roots extend too far because it make it impossible to get the tree into a pot of the appropriate size when you're all done 15 years later.

I've recently been struggling to squeeze trees from my first batch into bonsai pots, and it's been really eye opening. The technique pictured is my iteration that is intended to make the taper more gradual. Keep in mind that the roots will grow sideways also, they'll branch out that way when watered properly. So you're directing the larger rot growth downward (keeping all the big wood closer to the trunk) while allowing radial growth of smaller roots.

I can't guarantee this will work perfectly, but I can guarantee that spreading the roots perfectly horizontally even with lots of good technique later can end up causing you problems in your end game.

E.

 

[my nellie]

Interesting! Very interesting!
Let's hope we see the results after some years.

 

[Eric Schrader]

Update on these guys now that we're most of the way through the growing season. One succumbed to an infection that I neglected to treat - recent lab results show it was likely Pithium (test was from another pine with similar symptoms) http://ipm.ucanr.edu/PMG/r280100211.html

So I'm down to 4 viable entry candidates. The other 4 are growing well, although not quite as fast as I would hope. Fertilizer exploration may have contributed to the slower growth.

 

[Eric Schrader]

Oops, been a while since I added an update, so I'll add a couple here. I have photos, just forgot to post them!
Okay, here is one of them from September - exposed roots and then spread them a little and re-wired the trunk and major branches....

 

[Eric Schrader]

Here are the other two. The fourth one is still growing, but it had a bit of an accident lol, stupid neighbors!, so not posting it right now.
I'll be repotting all three of these into larger pond baskets in a few weeks.

 

[Eric Schrader]

Was puttering today and decided to take a photo of a couple of these. I had to label them to make sure I didn't forget which are part of the contest.

 

[badatusernames]

Are you decandling in this process or just letting go wild? I got some JBP seedling from @Pitoon and this thread is of great interest. Is this all from wiring the roots that first year? I've been wondering about how these trunks are created... great thread.

 

[Eric Schrader]

Are you decandling in this process or just letting go wild? I got some JBP seedling from @Pitoon and this thread is of great interest. Is this all from wiring the roots that first year? I've been wondering about how these trunks are created... great thread.

I concentrate my efforts on manicuring the small buds that appear at the 0-year node, the area around where the cotyledons first emerge, the main trunk is just a sacrifice branch basically. the sacrifice branch is not decandled until either the trunk / roots reach the size desired, or the lower growth becomes weak for some reason. As long as you make sure not to shade the lower smaller buds, that shouldn't happen for a while.

I talk about it a little in this YouTube video:

 

[badatusernames]

I concentrate my efforts on manicuring the small buds that appear at the 0-year node, the area around where the cotyledons first emerge, the main trunk is just a sacrifice branch basically. the sacrifice branch is not decandled until either the trunk / roots reach the size desired, or the lower growth becomes weak for some reason. As long as you make sure not to shade the lower smaller buds, that shouldn't happen for a while.

I talk about it a little in this YouTube video:

thanks! Just found your channel and have been watching through videos, great stuff!