Experience not theories please

[GrimLore]

Fooling around with tree stumps and doing something wrong could, at worst, = death of tree...not the end of the world, especially since there seems to be no shortage of decent material down there.

Fooling around with brakes and doing something wrong could = end of the (your) world.

Slight distinction!

Had to ask being the smart ass I am. Is that from Experience or a Theory?

Grimmy

 

[coh]

There's some things I don't mess with. Brakes...that's one of them! I know myself well enough to not take that chance...so I guess that's a little of both

 

[Poink88]

Fooling around with tree stumps and doing something wrong could, at worst, = death of tree...not the end of the world, especially since there seems to be no shortage of decent material down there.

Fooling around with brakes and doing something wrong could = end of the (your) world.

Slight distinction!

I know. Rest assured, no fooling around there...if I am not 100% confident I got it right, I would have called my backup mechanic.

I would rather have a car that will not start, than a car that won't stop.

 

[Poink88]

There's some things I don't mess with. Brakes...that's one of them! I know myself well enough to not take that chance...so I guess that's a little of both

Good for you and I am the same, I only take things I know I can handle.

 

[Nybonsai12]

Another distinction here is that the mechanic who told you that you needed a full shop to do a brake job also stood to make money off you.

What does the bonsai expert stand to gain? nothing.

 

[GrimLore]

A few years back when my Wife was here at College and I was in NY she had the Brakes on her truck done at a local garage here in PA. The following weekend she drove to my place and complained they were not correct. I took it to the local Nissan Dealer in NY and they said all looked ok. Two months passed and we had both moved to this area. I took her Truck to a different mechanic here in PA and had the oil changed and asked him to check the brakes. Sure enough the other garage changed the pads but they did not use the rest of the clips and parts that are required from the dealership. He replaced all of them for me with proper Factory Replacements and the difference was amazing and she was pleased.
I am certain I would have done what the first place did and happy that I found a "Proper" mechanic.

Grimmy

 

[coh]

That's the other side of the issue, there's no guarantee that the mechanic is going to do the job correctly.

 

[Poink88]

Another distinction here is that the mechanic who told you that you needed a full shop to do a brake job also stood to make money off you.

What does the bonsai expert stand to gain? nothing.

Doesn't want his "expertise" diminished somehow? To some it is an ego thing. I honestly believe most here really mean well though but the problem is always lumping everyone in one category. Mandating them to spend 5 years in horticulture, then 5 years wiring, carving, styling...then maybe the "art" part will come. Do not do anything in your first few years...that is not the way. Do not touch your tree, let it rest a few years. That cannot be done. etc. Come on! I will be dead before I can wire a tree if I followed these rules!

Are we here to nurture newbies or scare them off from the hobby (yes HOBBY to most of us)?

Me, I just want to enjoy...learn, share, maybe brag a bit...intentionally, just to give some oldies a ribbing.

 

[GrimLore]

Doesn't want his "expertise" diminished somehow? To some it is an ego thing. I honestly believe most here really mean well though but the problem is always lumping everyone in one category. Mandating them to spend 5 years in horticulture, then 5 years wiring, carving, styling...then maybe the "art" part will come. Do not do anything in your first few years...that is not the way. Do not touch your tree, let it rest a few years. That cannot be done. etc. Come on! I will be dead before I can wire a tree if I followed these rules!

Are we here to nurture newbies or scare them off from the hobby (yes HOBBY to most of us)?

Me, I just want to enjoy...learn, share, maybe brag a bit...intentionally, just to give some oldies a ribbing.

I am pretty certain you have a more natural ability to grow trees in your climate then I did 6 years ago - trust me I needed those years and found them to be a nice part of the experience although sometimes exhausting.

Grimmy

 

[Poink88]

- trust me I needed those years and found them to be a nice part of the experience although sometimes exhausting.

And that is fine. Someone who needs it must spend that time (even longer if need be)...just not mandate everyone has to do it. For me, everyone should move at their own phase (only they know it), be aware of the risks, and own it.

 

[GrimLore]

And that is fine. Someone who needs it must spend that time (even longer if need be)...just not mandate everyone has to do it. For me, everyone should move at their own phase (only they know it), be aware of the risks, and own it.

I understand - What I generally tell newer people is to know the risks exactly as you stated. So for me to say "do you know how to grow and winter that species" before they turn it to firewood is not a bad thing for many reasons... Or I am I missing your point my friend

Grimmy

 

[RECLAIMEDBARNWOOD]

What you do poink? I think this argument started in another thread or I missed something. From what I read here looks like your carving something to soon. I'm new at this too about a year in and I've learned a lot. Your boxwoods looked like they had a lot of vigor and new growth so I probably would have tried it as well. Ghram always says in his videos how long he waits to work and most of his videos he's had the tree sitting there for a few years before he touches it. I've heard it like this- if someone just had a heart surgery they wouldn't go back in the next week for a lung transplant. They need to heal from one thing before they can do the next. But people and plants all heal at different rates. Hope your trees do well and if not get another and learn from the last.

 

[coh]

Here's the way I would approach this whole issue of working the stumps (especially carving) too soon. If the stumps are producing strong growth both on the top (which they obviously are) AND at the roots, then I would feel reasonably safe working on them.

We had a large old tree (box elder) cut down last summer. This spring I found that some of the trunk segments that were left behind were sprouting very vigorous shoots. This was after sitting out exposed all winter. I'm talking about trunk segments that were about a foot across and a foot or two in length. I was tempted to "plant" one of those to see what would happen but never got around to it. I've seen this happen with other species as well...top growth can be surprisingly vigorous while the roots remain weak due to stored energy in the wood.

Chris

 

[Poink88]

What you do poink? I think this argument started in another thread or I missed something. From what I read here looks like your carving something to soon. I'm new at this too about a year in and I've learned a lot. ...

Sorry, there is a long back story to this. It started the day I joined here...maybe even before and these issues spilled from another forum. LOL

It is not about carving really. It is an example to drive the point...that people do things their way at their own time. They learn and move at different phases. Hopefully people won't be too quick to say something is the wrong way because it didn't follow the norm. etc.

I admit, I could be wrong but that is fine, I will suffer the consequences if I am. (part of my learning process)

 

[Cadillactaste]

What you do poink? I think this argument started in another thread or I missed something. From what I read here looks like your carving something to soon. I'm new at this too about a year in and I've learned a lot. Your boxwoods looked like they had a lot of vigor and new growth so I probably would have tried it as well. Ghram always says in his videos how long he waits to work and most of his videos he's had the tree sitting there for a few years before he touches it. I've heard it like this- if someone just had a heart surgery they wouldn't go back in the next week for a lung transplant. They need to heal from one thing before they can do the next. But people and plants all heal at different rates. Hope your trees do well and if not get another and learn from the last.

There was mention of an email...earlier. But it seems these two have a past.

 

[Poink88]

BTW, here are the 3 (corrected) I carved and what happened after. After looking at these, I dare you tell me I did it too soon, and my trees are suffering.

http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?8797-Carved-my-buttonwood
Note that the last pic is after a haircut...removing about half the foliage.

http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?11049-Carved-my-raffle-won-Live-Oak
This have more growth now too. Should be ready to just grow next year.

http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?9391-My-Tintillo-from-Puerto-Rico

For the record, these are the only trees I carved (unless you call using my cutters carving). I am also not claiming the carving are great because they are not...but I did what I can and believe are not bad for my first try.

 

[coh]

How do we know you didn't just photoshop foliage onto pictures of dead trunks?

 

[Poink88]

How do we know you didn't just photoshop foliage onto pictures of dead trunks?

LOL...well I must be better in photoshop than I thought!

 

[GrimLore]

LOL...well I must be better in photoshop than I thought!

Nice work, and again I say you are much more confident and I say "GRATZ" - I have "ok" results carving but to be honest I just do Concaves to encourage healing and none for styling yet.

Grimmy

 

[coh]

LOL...well I must be better in photoshop than I thought!

If you can repair your own brakes (and live to tell about it), I'm sure you can master the fine art of using photoshop to doctor your bonsai!