Fertilizing Prebonsai

[Rhumphres01]

At the moment almost all of my trees are Prebonsai in large containers so I can grow their trunks and branches as quickly as possible. How would fertilizing differ in this stage from refinement? Would I want a balanced fertilizer in both cases or would a different fertilizer ratio be better for Prebonsai growth? Thanks for any help!

 

[Paradox]

The tree only uses fertilizer in the NPK ratios it needs so fertilizer heavy in one or another is a waste. The key to getting growth is to feed regularly and more often than you would once you are in maintenance mode.

 

[KikurageOtomo]

pre-bonsai generally looks to maximize the development of size so you need more nitrogen, most fertilizers I see for that purpose are something like 12-4-5. Once you're in refinement you don't want huge pushes of growth that you need to constantly chase back to preserve the structure, you'd switch to something like a 5-7-4 then. Obviously the exact numbers are flexible for a multitude of factors and considerations. But somewhere in that range is going to serve you well for many trees.

 

[Rhumphres01]

The tree only uses fertilizer in the NPK ratios it needs so fertilizer heavy in one or another is a waste. The key to getting growth is to feed regularly and more often than you would once you are in maintenance mode.

Ah gotcha! So how much more often would you say to fertilize? I have biogold original that I clean off and reapply every 6 weeks, so should I switch it to every 3 weeks or something? I have also read that higher N ratios cause larger leaves and internodes in comparison to balanced fertilizer. Is that information incorrect then?

 

[pandacular]

Ah gotcha! So how much more often would you say to fertilize? I have biogold original that I clean off and reapply every 6 weeks, so should I switch it to every 3 weeks or something? I have also read that higher N ratios cause larger leaves and internodes in comparison to balanced fertilizer. Is that information incorrect then?

BioGold is slow release, set it and forget it fertilizer. It runs off when watering, so it gets a bit each watering. You could refresh BioGold regularly, but generally when people speak of fertilizer frequency, they mean for liquid fertilizer.

 

[pandacular]

The tree only uses fertilizer in the NPK ratios it needs so fertilizer heavy in one or another is a waste.

something seems off here

 

[SgtPilko]

For raw material and pre-bonsai I go pretty hard - in the growing season generous monthly solid organic applications (something a bit stronger and cheaper than biogold e.g. tamahi cakes or some other local stuff we get in the UK) plus weekly liquid applications, something up around 10-10-10. Biostimulator in the spring after repotting. Occasional seaweed and fish emulsions too. Switch to 0-10-10 as we get close to autumn. I am fairly new but never had any adverse effects, just loads of growth in a land without much sun

I think gentle application of Biogold, Naruko etc are better in your middle and final stages, when you want to maintain short internodes and smaller foliage.

 

[Shibui]

Keep using your Biogold but also use a liquid fert every 2-3 weeks just to keep the available nutrient levels up for growth.
Higher N will usually increase leaf size and sometimes internode length. Should not be worrying about leaf size while in development. That's for later refinement.
Internode length can be an issue when developing smaller trees but can usually be managed by selective and appropriate pruning. If internode length proves to be too big a problem you'll just have to reduce fert and therefore growth rates. Sometimes we can't have cake and eat it too.

When you refer to 'balanced' fertilizer I hope you haven't fallen in the trap of thinking balanced is the same as equal ratios. In fertilizer parlance the term balanced simply means the fert has some of all major nutrients. Equal ratio fertilizer is a con and a definite waste of nutrients because plants cannot not use all 3 major nutrients in equal quantities.
Zero N fert for autumn has also been debunked. It does nothing to help winter hardiness.

 

[Paradox]

something seems off here

Trees don't use NPK in equal ratios, nothing off about that.

 

[Cajunrider]

At the moment almost all of my trees are Prebonsai in large containers so I can grow their trunks and branches as quickly as possible. How would fertilizing differ in this stage from refinement? Would I want a balanced fertilizer in both cases or would a different fertilizer ratio be better for Prebonsai growth? Thanks for any help!

I take a simpler approach. I know the role of each element of NPK. However, instead of agonizing over the NPK ratio for my trees, I simply feed all my pre-bonsai Osmo Cotes Plus once a month. Then would feed them diluted fish fertilizer whenever I feel they need to perk up a little. Until they develop into more valuable bonsai, I think this approach will suffice.

 

[pandacular]

Trees don't use NPK in equal ratios, nothing off about that.

I don't think it's a matter of ratios but of total quantities, is my point. There is Liebig's Law, which seems sorta like what you're referring to, but it's not about ratios still.

 

[Paradox]

I don't think it's a matter of ratios but of total quantities, is my point. There is Liebig's Law, which seems sorta like what you're referring to, but it's not about ratios still.

Regardless of the total amounts needed, plants only will use NPK in a certain ratio.
One theory indicates that it is species specific, for example some plants need higher amounts of nitrogen compared to phosphorus and potassium.

The numbers on fertilizer both indicate the ratio of one vs the other of NPK but it also gives an indication of the amount of NPK in each dose.
For example a 5:5:5 NPK fertilizer contains 5 times as much as a fertilizer that has 1:1:1. So you will need 5 times as much of the second to give the same amounts as the first. There are also fertilizers that give different ratios of NPK. For example Miracle Grow powder is 24:8:16, where as Plantone is 5:3:3.

One of the most cited ratios I see for plant needs is 3:1:2 for flowering plants (same ratio as miracle grow). So if you give your flowering plant a fertilizer that is 3:3:3, it will only use 3:1:2 so the rest of the Phosphorus and Potassium is essentially wasted.

So the point is to choose a fertilizer that meets the needs of the plants you are growing if you can. To complicate matters further, it also depends on what your soil analysis is. If you have a soil already high in one component, you don't want to buy a fertilizer that is high in that component. The plant will uptake the greater amount of that one component but it will not result in greater growth because the plant will only use N:K in a 3:1:2 ratio.

What Is NPK: Understanding Those 3 Numbers on Fertilizers

It’s not the coolest or most exciting gardening skill, but knowing how to pick the right fertilizer for your garden is essential and can make a world of difference to the health and beauty of your plants. If you've ever picked up a bag of fertilizer, you've seen the numbers on the package. Someti

www.gardenbetty.com

Fertilizer - Selecting The Right NPK Ratio

Fertilizer is important for plants, but most recommendations for NPK ratios are wrong. Learn to understand fertilizers so you can select the right one.

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However, a more recent theory is that plants all us the same ratios. This article has an interesting contrast in two different theories of plant nutrition.

What is the Best NPK Ratio for Growing Plants? - Garden Myths

What is the best NPK fertilizer ratio for plants. Are roses any different from tomatoes? Do you need a different fertilizer for each plant?

www.gardenmyths.com

In the end, no matter which theory is correct and there are indicators that both theories have some validity at least in part, it doesn't make sense to overload one component of NPK since it will not result in greater growth as demonstrated in experiments.

 

[pandacular]

ah this is much more in line with my understanding. I thought that you meant that a plant can only use ratios as listed in a bottle, but you mean the ratios between the components. I was concerned about the first application, because obviously fertilizer is substantially more complicated than "this plant needs a fertilizer that is printed 9:3:6, not one that is 18:6:12".

I actually think that you and I are saying the same things, as your last post seems like a way of explaining Liebig's Law, i.e., that a plant is limited by the scarcest component that it needs. thanks for expounding on this, and apologies if it seemed like i was questioning your judgement.

personally, i prescribe to the practical theory that most of us will never know (a) the exact needs of our plants and (b) the exact content of our soil, so it's best to just rotate fertilizers with different ratios so that we aren't accidentally overloading (wasting!) any one component at any one time, but on average strike some sort of balance.

N:K

this is a funny result of auto-mated emoji replacement

 

[Cajunrider]

It's all good. We have little trees that are planted in mostly free draining substrate, waste of fertilizer is inevitable.
On the other hand, the weeds in my backyard with the water and fertilizer run off, are growing like crazy.

 

[pandacular]

unfortunately, my run-off is into the downspout, and straight into the drain. this is my main motivation for exploring using only (primarily?) organic fertilizer. at some point, i'll make a post about that, but organic vs chemical/mineral fertilizer is a touchy subject.

I have somehow managed to grow a great deal of grass in the planting beds my trees drain into, however, so I guess I know it's doing something.

 

[SgtPilko]

It's all good. We have little trees that are planted in mostly free draining substrate, waste of fertilizer is inevitable.
On the other hand, the weeds in my backyard with the water and fertilizer run off, are growing like crazy.

Everything else in my yard is 10ft tall. Amazing the trees manage to stay so small

 

[Cajunrider]

It's all good. We have little trees that are planted in mostly free draining substrate, waste of fertilizer is inevitable.
On the other hand, the weeds in my backyard with the water and fertilizer run off, are growing like crazy.

Some of the weeds went in between the fence boards into my neighbors' backyard. The pet tortoise of my neighbor loves the weeds however. It is now pacing along my fence a whole lot more than before.

 

[Cajunrider]

unfortunately, my run-off is into the downspout, and straight into the drain. this is my main motivation for exploring using only (primarily?) organic fertilizer. at some point, i'll make a post about that, but organic vs chemical/mineral fertilizer is a touchy subject.

I have somehow managed to grow a great deal of grass in the planting beds my trees drain into, however, so I guess I know it's doing something.

I am sensitive to the subject of fertilizer runoff, having seen the effects of it firsthand in the Gulf of Mexico where the algae bloom created dead zone at the mouth of the Mississippi River. What used to be great fishing and shrimping ground is now not so great. However, the amount of fertilizer I used for my bonsai is miniscule compared to what others used on their lawn, golf course, and farmland.

 

[pandacular]

However, the amount of fertilizer I used for my bonsai is miniscule compared to what others used on their lawn, golf course, and farmland.

totally true! (don't get me started on golf courses...i'm a big hippie when it comes to golf)

for me, it's partly about limiting my personal impact in small ways. much of my bonsai practice is about self reflection on sustainability, so it's important to me for those reasons.

 

[Paradox]

It's all good. We have little trees that are planted in mostly free draining substrate, waste of fertilizer is inevitable.
On the other hand, the weeds in my backyard with the water and fertilizer run off, are growing like crazy.

yea my grass around the benches is doing great from the sprinkler area