Grafted and non-grafted mume...

[Cadillactaste]

Just curious...seeing both. Would imagine the ungrafted the more desired of the two.

 

[M. Frary]

You are right. The parent stock being more vigorous usually means it will probably be bigger,have a bulge at the graft union maybe even different bark. If you find a tree you really want and it is grafted it is possible to separate the tree just above the graft by air layering. Although this adds time to development it may be worth it.

Mike Frary.

 

[M. Frary]

And then there are grafts a person can or has to live with. This one of my Hinoki Cypresses. Its going to be a pretty nice tree. But. If you look low it is a grafted specimen and I'm not sure on layering these so I will live with it.

 

[Cadillactaste]

Thanks Mike...price comparison for a non grafted tree...is one looking basically doubling the price of a grafted tree?

That is a beautiful tree...I could easily see why you can live with it.

 

[M. Frary]

I would think a non-grafted tree is a little more than grafted. But. (There it is again!) For bonsai a non grafted tree is much more to be desired so can command a much higher price than trees that are to be used in landscaping because everything in bonsai starts with a good trunk.
Thank you for the compliment. I love these things. They're pretty tough if things are done in a timely manner. I only just picked it up this spring. So far I've cut 2/3 of the roots off washed out all the old soil and planted it in Napa floor dry. Waited to make sure it was going good then thinned close to 1/2 the foliage or more. Cut 1/4 of its branches off. Oh yeah wired the main branches . Next year another root prune to make them fit in a shallower pot and fine wiring.
Also I've been reading your posts trying to find a good subject for a flowering bonsai and I don't know if anyone has suggested Forsythia yet but I've seen some pictures of them on the old interweb. They are pretty and tough. Pretty tough? Anyway something else to consider .

Mike Frary

 

[Cadillactaste]

I would think a non-grafted tree is a little more than grafted. But. (There it is again!) For bonsai a non grafted tree is much more to be desired so can command a much higher price than trees that are to be used in landscaping because everything in bonsai starts with a good trunk.
Thank you for the compliment. I love these things. They're pretty tough if things are done in a timely manner. I only just picked it up this spring. So far I've cut 2/3 of the roots off washed out all the old soil and planted it in Napa floor dry. Waited to make sure it was going good then thinned close to 1/2 the foliage or more. Cut 1/4 of its branches off. Oh yeah wired the main branches . Next year another root prune to make them fit in a shallower pot and fine wiring.
Also I've been reading your posts trying to find a good subject for a flowering bonsai and I don't know if anyone has suggested Forsythia yet but I've seen some pictures of them on the old interweb. They are pretty and tough. Pretty tough? Anyway something else to consider .

Mike Frary

Thanks Mike...I have a Forsynthia in my own yard...I'll have to look into that as well. Root prunings and such...so awe inspiring to think of the one who first came up with the entire idea...ya know!?! Never have done it myself...but it is amazing at how one can reduce the roots to the extent they do. My Bougainvillea doesn't like harsh root prunings so I have read. But I am sure one day...it will be an interesting endeavor. One I do sparingly. Lol

I've seen non grafted ume on eBay for $300-$350 and grafted ones for $98...this was why I was curious as to cost of each...air laying is an option one must consider I hadn't considered...this isn't one I am dead set on...I would remove the fruit as it came on. But...I did admire the one in bloom in my penjing book. Which has me going hm-mmm a question mark is beside it on my list I am making for purchase options for next year...

 

[tom tynan]

The grafted varieties of prunus that one often finds are for ornamental or landscape garden purposes. The graft is often high and poorly executed. The bark will have a distinctive line where the graft union meets. You willl get suckers or shoots growing below the graft union as well. Very difficult to make a good bonsai from this material. I agree a good prunus mume trunk - that was field grown - can run you anywhere from $300 to $400 - but you are paying for another person's time.

You can PM me direct and I can give you more information if your interested.

Forsythia make interesting flowering bonsai - but their shoots are hollow and water gets inside causing alot of rot. They are considered a more uncommon flowering tree and probably not one to start with - unless you have access to a nice stump. Stay with the more common crab apple, cherry, plum and hawthorn for great flowering trees......Tom

 

[Cadillactaste]

The grafted varieties of prunus that one often finds are for ornamental or landscape garden purposes. The graft is often high and poorly executed. The bark will have a distinctive line where the graft union meets. You willl get suckers or shoots growing below the graft union as well. Very difficult to make a good bonsai from this material. I agree a good prunus mume trunk - that was field grown - can run you anywhere from $300 to $400 - but you are paying for another person's time.

You can PM me direct and I can give you more information if your interested.

Forsythia make interesting flowering bonsai - but their shoots are hollow and water gets inside causing alot of rot. They are considered a more uncommon flowering tree and probably not one to start with - unless you have access to a nice stump. Stay with the more common crab apple, cherry, plum and hawthorn for great flowering trees......Tom

Thanks Tom! I'm undecided on crabapple and plum. They both made my list. Crabapple I believe is native to our area. So maybe a plus...not sure about the plum. It's getting late...maybe I can contact you later...looking for a spring purchase...which if they run $300-400 and I'm new to bonsai...if I don't kill the Bougainvillea maybe it stands a chance...need to learn more on the care and such. But I am excited to have someone tell me more about them. Thanks for the offer.

 

[fredtruck]

Before you decide that an ungrafted ume is the way to go, you should consider this paragraph written by Peter Tea in his blog, Peter Tea Bonsai. He's an apprentice at Aichi-en in Japan. The name of the article is Japanese Flowering Plum Basics. In Japan, as elsewhere in Asia, prunus mume are called plums. Here's the paragraph:

I Have a Flowering Plum But it Doesn’t Flower. Why?

Flowering Plum will not flower because of two reasons. Either the tree is too weak or the tree is too young. The first part is easily fixed by better care and growing techniques, which includes good soil, good water and food. Most of the time though a Flowering Plum doesn’t bloom because the tree itself is too young.

In Japan, most Flowering Plums are grafted early on in life. Since people want the flowers, they would take a branch that is know to flower from another tree and graft it to a young root stock. This way, the tree will immediately start blooming. Unlike other flowering trees that may take 1-15 years before they bloom, Flowering Plum is much more unpredictable. So far, it seems that a tree will start to bloom somewhere between 20 year and 100+ years! I know this to be true because we have a Flowering plum that was grown from seed in the yard that is over 100 years old and one of the lower branches still won’t bloom. This unpredictability is the reason why people tend to graft instead.