How should I go about acquiring Blue Atlas Cedar?

[Japonicus]

So one of the trees I've admired at NEB and always wanted to start one
is the Blue Atlas Cedar, though I don't know which to look for.
Is fast growing ideal? I have a grafted one in the ground that's rather sad looking
due to graft and tall thin trunk, but I love the blue foliage.

Also need a good source. Local nursery stock is too big when it comes in (15g pots).

 

[Potawatomi13]

Ask first those that have one you admire. Secondly search nurseries and online. In getting stock sure you must be to check trunk down to roots so no reverse taper present. This first most important after health of tree and hard to overcome. Next see if low/reasonably abundant branching present. As important is bends(movement) in trunk unless growing formal upright style. Size of bigger tree can be cut back(and obtain bigger trunk)if other desirables present. If doing cutback, repotting, wiring consult Bonsai club hopefully you are member of already. Best of fortune.

 

[0soyoung]

Give Brent a try (item #2150), @Japonicus.
From seed, he says, so there will be no grafts, but give him a call to be sure.

 

[discusmike]

He has small sizes,no graft

 

[JudyB]

If you can get non grafted, that would be best. I had a grafted one that was a nice tree, but the graft union got more and more out of scale between the two parts, so I let it go.

 

[Japonicus]

Sorry guys for the delayed response. The thread didn't flag in my notifications, and I missed it.

 

[Japonicus]

Give Brent a try (item #2150), @Japonicus.
From seed, he says, so there will be no grafts, but give him a call to be sure.

Thanks Osoyoung! I don't see the glauca. Isn't glauca more bluish?
Is glauca conducive to bonsai?

I will surely give Brent a call and see what he has. Thanks so much.
This is the tree that inspired my desire 10 yrs ago to try my hand at one
View media item 4389Taken at NEB Oct. 2008

 

[Japonicus]

If you can get non grafted, that would be best. I had a grafted one that was a nice tree, but the graft union got more and more out of scale between the two parts, so I let it go.

For sure. I have one too that's grafted, but leaving it in ground. I cut it back a bit last year, hoping for ramification.

 

[0soyoung]

Thanks Osoyoung! I don't see the glauca. Isn't glauca more bluish?
Is glauca conducive to bonsai?

I will surely give Brent a call and see what he has. Thanks so much.
This is the tree that inspired my desire 10 yrs ago to try my hand at one
View media item 4389Taken at NEB Oct. 2008

This is after 4 seasons of growing the seedling I got from Brent.

I too experienced the disappointment of garden nursery 'specimens'. This is another species with which it pays to grow from a 0-3 seedling. It is a tough call whether Atlas cedar or Japanese white pine has the most beautiful foliage, IMHO.

 

[Japonicus]

This is after 4 seasons of growing the seedling I got from Brent.

I too experienced the disappointment of garden nursery 'specimens'. This is another species with which it pays to grow from a 0-3 seedling. It is a tough call whether Atlas cedar or Japanese white pine has the most beautiful foliage, IMHO.

Nice, I like it! Is that the same as the one you linked at Brents?
4 growing seasons...how tall was it and is it now? Did you grow it in ground any of those 4 years then reduced?

 

[Japonicus]

Ask first those that have one you admire. Secondly search nurseries and online. In getting stock sure you must be to check trunk down to roots so no reverse taper present. This first most important after health of tree and hard to overcome. Next see if low/reasonably abundant branching present. As important is bends(movement) in trunk unless growing formal upright style. Size of bigger tree can be cut back(and obtain bigger trunk)if other desirables present. If doing cutback, repotting, wiring consult Bonsai club hopefully you are member of already. Best of fortune.

Hi Potawatomi. No bonsai club near me. You guys are the closest thing I have.
Missed a good 15g potted one last Spring at Lowes for $70 for the landscape
to replace my Viridis Japanese maple that cannot handle the Sun there since my shade
trees are gone now. The maple has died and maybe now I plant that Thunderhead pine there, LOL!
Will check again this Spring to see if they get more in.

 

[0soyoung]

Nice, I like it! Is that the same as the one you linked at Brents?
4 growing seasons...how tall was it and is it now? Did you grow it in ground any of those 4 years then reduced?

It was a 4 inch potted seedling and has been in the pot full of Turface shown in the photo since I got it from Brent.

 

[Adair M]

Jim Gremel has nice ones, but they’re expensive!

 

[0soyoung]

Jim Gremel has nice ones, but they’re expensive!

His website seems to have disappeared.
Do you know what's up, Adair?

 

[Adair M]

This is after 4 seasons of growing the seedling I got from Brent.

I too experienced the disappointment of garden nursery 'specimens'. This is another species with which it pays to grow from a 0-3 seedling. It is a tough call whether Atlas cedar or Japanese white pine has the most beautiful foliage, IMHO.

A green glazed pot with a Blue Atlas Cedar? Really?

How much of that photo did you photoshop?

And, please go watch Colin Lewis’ free wiring class on www.craftsy.com. Please.

 

[Adair M]

His website seems to have disappeared.
Do you know what's up, Adair?

Not sure about his website. He’s still on-line. You can reach him at JimGremel@gmail.com.

I saw him last weekend. He has plenty of wire available. (I ordered quite a bit!). And, of course, he had some nice Atlas Cedars for sale. But, they’re expensive!

I bought a green Atlas Cedar from him about 4 years ago. And the ones he had at his vendor table this time were almost twice as expensive and not as nice! I think they may be pictured in Dav4’s BIB Show thread.

 

[Adair M]

Atlas Cedars will develop nice pads pretty easily.

The key is to not pinch them in the spring. Let them grow. Then, in early summer, cut back to a bud. You may (or may not) get a second flush of growth. Again, don’t pinch if you do.

The cutting back is what makes them send out energetic side branches. If you pinch them they’ll sulk and get weak. If you don’t cut them back, they’ll just extend long branches.

You will have to wire the branches. Continuously. They’re very “sappy” so they don’t “set” into place. So be prepared to always have wire on them. Leaving it on for an extended time helps some, but will put bad scars on the bark. That will show for a VERY long time. They have a smooth grey juvenile bark that persists for 30 years or more before it starts to toughen up. They’re even worse than JWP in this regard! And it wire scars easily. So, either live with the wire scars, or replace the wire at least every other year.

The Blues are less vigorous than the Greens, and are a little more difficult to make them dense.

They don’t seem to back bud on old wood. At least mine hasn’t. So be sure to keep your interior branches healthy by allowing sunshine to get in.

 

[Japonicus]

Atlas Cedars will develop nice pads pretty easily.

The key is to not pinch them in the spring. Let them grow. Then, in early summer, cut back to a bud. You may (or may not) get a second flush of growth. Again, don’t pinch if you do.

The cutting back is what makes them send out energetic side branches. If you pinch them they’ll sulk and get weak. If you don’t cut them back, they’ll just extend long branches.

You will have to wire the branches. Continuously. They’re very “sappy” so they don’t “set” into place. So be prepared to always have wire on them. Leaving it on for an extended time helps some, but will put bad scars on the bark. That will show for a VERY long time. They have a smooth grey juvenile bark that persists for 30 years or more before it starts to toughen up. They’re even worse than JWP in this regard! And it wire scars easily. So, either live with the wire scars, or replace the wire at least every other year.

The Blues are less vigorous than the Greens, and are a little more difficult to make them dense.

They don’t seem to back bud on old wood. At least mine hasn’t. So be sure to keep your interior branches healthy by allowing sunshine to get in.

Great info, thanks @Adair M . Is there an in depth article you could link?

How about needles on these trees? Pulling/cutting particularly downward growing and too dense areas.
Learning from @Vance Wood on the auxins damned up causing back budding on mughos
due to timely shoot pruning, rather than the candle pinching, makes me want to learn all I can on Cedars.
Just trying to learn variances within a given species can be difficult.

Then, in early summer, cut back to a bud.

Latent or active bud?

 

[Adair M]

Great info, thanks @Adair M . Is there an in depth article you could link?

How about needles on these trees? Pulling/cutting particularly downward growing and too dense areas.
Learning from @Vance Wood on the auxins damned up causing back budding on mughos
due to timely shoot pruning, rather than the candle pinching, makes me want to learn all I can on Cedars.
Just trying to learn variances within a given species can be difficult.


Latent or active bud?

I do remove (pull or cut off) downward growing shoots and needles.

When cutting back to a bud, they’re easy to see. They’re on the tip end of a little branch. Choose one that’s pointing the direction you want to extend the branch.

 

[Dav4]

His website seems to have disappeared.
Do you know what's up, Adair?

Jim Gremel cedars for sale at the BIB show last week... fantastic trees but you definitely pay a premium for those trunks!